Posted on 12/07/2011 7:00:50 AM PST by SeekAndFind
It's one thing to claim that nameless, faceless government bureaucrats are overpaid. It's quite another to argue, as Jason Richwine of the Heritage Foundation and I recently have, that public school teachers are overpaid by more than 50 percent. This is real money, costing state and local governments over $100 billion annually. Our study generated significant, sometimes hysterical, pushback. But our conclusions still stand, and deliver important lessons regarding education financing and reform.
The claim that teachers are underpaid rests on a single isolated fact: that on average, public school teachers receive salaries about 19 percent less than private sector workers with bachelor's or master's degrees. But it's really not that simple. Here are eight reasons why.
1. All bachelor's degrees aren't the same. No one's surprised when a physics or finance major earns more than the person who studied medieval poetry, even if both graduate from the same college. Likewise, Education is widely held to be a less rigorous course of study, attracting below-average students but awarding the highest average GPAs of any college major. Easy grading both discourages hard work and makes it tough for schools to separate the good prospective teachers from the not-so-good ones. Prospective teachers enter college with SAT scores around the 40th percentile - meaning that about 60 percent of test-takers received higher scores - so it shouldn't be surprising if teachers' salaries after graduation salaries are around the 40th percentile as well.
2. That master's degree may not be worth much either. Many teachers have master's degrees but, as the Center for Educator Compensation Reform summarized the research, "The preponderance of evidence suggests that teachers who have completed graduate degrees are not significantly more effective at increasing student learning than those with no more than a bachelor's degree."
(Excerpt) Read more at realclearmarkets.com ...
I don’t teach but some of my friends do. They explain their frustrations over how they’re perceived. They’re just as much victims of the systems as the kids. Any wrong move they’re fired. It gets deeper but many of them are just plain frustrated. They’re between a rock and a hard place.
Bump that! Recruit people with ACTUAL SKILLS to impart same to our children.
>> If pay was ‘results-oriented’; teachers would be paid the rough equivalent of a teen-age babysitter. >>
And the irony is, if we went to a full choice school system, then that would be the equivalent of “free agency” for teachers - which would be a boon to the good ones.
But who fights that tooth and nail? The teachers’ own unions. That’s proof right there that as a group, they are economically ignorant.
(as are the pupils they teach as well...)
Sure, but that's just like in Philly when everyone complains about corruption, scams, crime but elect the SAME people into office time after time.
Until the teachers do something about it (other than preaching from the red book and organizing the next generations of serfs) they are the problem.
They experience frustration; I see business opportunity.
He switched majors.
Very true. My wife retired after 30 years of teaching last year. It had gotten to the point the school board backs the parents the majority of the time and teachers just need to suck it up and deal with it.
The pay was OK but not exorbitant and her retirement is less than 50% of what she was earning. I don't consider that out of line with private industry.
But what the heck, it's easier to paint with a broad brush and declare all teachers are overpaid and underworked.
where do you think administrators come from?
They are former teachers.
They are asked to manage an unmanageable bunch without the power of rewarding excellence, or firing poor teachers.
Teachers unions “are” the teachers.
Same here. I have a lot of friends who are teachers. I’ve noticed the same frustrations. I’m sympathetic up to a point.
I’ll discuss conservative ideas for reforming education. But I’ve learned to avoid opening the discussion with, “You get paid for 12 months but only work 10.” It tends to end the debate prematurely, and it doesn’t approach the central problems of public education.
I admire you for your efforts, for your attention to your children. You are doing us all a favor I reckon, by raising honorable and respectful children. You truly ARE voting “present” in their lives.
It’s a jiggered system. Would that free-market principles rule!
Nope. The UNIONS. The teachers I know are forced to pay tribute, and that ends their (coerced) involvement. The ‘faces’ are activists, thugs, and useless bean-counters.
Good teachers are too busy trying to teach through the shackles imposed upon them by the UNION ADMINISTRATORS, and are not otherwise involved. They are at home at night grading math.
The teachers are not the problem. I wish we could focus on the power-broker UNION ADMINISTRATORS, and not the front-line grunts, who by-and-large, get through it and teach their passion by keeping their heads down.
I don’t know how decent folk do it, and MOST TEACHERS ARE DECENT FOLK!
I’d push for de-funding, and DISBANDING the dam union and doubling teacher salaries.
Now there’s a winner for whichever candidate dares suggest such a radical thing...the grunts would vote our side in droves!
(Then I’d work for vouchers)
Cheers!
...any wrong move and they’re fired..
you’re kidding right? google nyc teachers rubber rooms.
a family member is a principal. it is next to impossible
to fire a teacher.
...any wrong move and they’re fired.. lol hahahahahaha!
if only...
They're not teachers...they're "educators".
You just watch them for a while and you'll get a great education on the "education" industry and what a load of crap it is.
Who is really overpaid considering impact on the future of the country, teachers or stockbrokers? If you want the best pay the most. If education is failing pay more for teachers.
...so we have children that can’t make change, but they sure now how to argue the ‘rights’ of homosexuals with Presidential candidates...
Doesn’t matter. It hangs over their heads like Damocles sword. They have to report every incident no matter how minor. That’s why kids get hauled off by cops for stupid reasons.
I have watched them for awhile!
I feel bad for the good teachers - and there are many.
But the system is rigged to prop up the incompetents.
They “were” the teachers, I agree. But their hearts were for power and bennies, NOT the children. They are sellouts for comfort. (and they weren’t good teachers to begin with - you can spot them a mile away!) The teachers I know despise that type.
any wrong move and they’re fired? really?
wow. what state are you from?
“... a lot of folks can do it...”, well let them is my answer. We loose about 1/2 of our new teachers each year. They cannot take it. My wife is a professional and she has told me a number of times she could not do my job. Teaching your own kids is one thing. Teaching those of others is another story. We are social workers, psychologists, parents, and much more to these kids. Many do not have anything like a normal life. I have kids just out of jail and kids in high school who can barely read. We do the best we can with what we are given. I am just telling you the reality of the situation. People tend to think in terms of “Leave It to Beaver” or “Father Knows Best” times. Those times are long gone. Think “Married With Children” if you want to know what the parents and children are like.
I have had jobs that had different pressures. Teaching, if you do it right, has its own pressure. It is not uncommon for me to work nights, weekends and on my vacation periods.
I don't mind the work as I enjoy the job. I have had many jobs in private and public life before I started to teach.
That makes me somewhat different but more and more people in my position are going into teaching. We are older and have seen the outside world of which you speak.
I have no problems with home schooling and I wish you well. It is a viable option for many people. I home schooled my daughter many years ago as she had a medical condition and could not be in school. She did fine. Good Luck.
We need to stop peeving off the teachers, the VAST MAJORITY of them are good people...in truth, they hate the unions more than we do - I SEE AN ELECTION OPPORTUNITY!
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