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To: GLDNGUN

Tancredo: “The so-called Red Card Solution purports to create a new guest-worker program that solves all of our immigration problems...”

So Tancredo has chosen to lie rather than be content having a discussion on the issue.

Nobody EVER claimed it would “solve all of our immigration problems,” and Tancredo is a liar for purporting that anyone did.

Why is it that nobody seems to be able to contest Newt without resorting to lies, fabrications, and/or outright hypocrisy?


18 posted on 11/26/2011 12:32:01 AM PST by TitansAFC (Cain's answer on how to handle illegals who broke FEDERAL law? Let the states take care of it. Punt!)
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To: TitansAFC

Newt ain’t half the man Tancredo is. And no one is lying about Newt’s record. You’re just in denial about it.


19 posted on 11/26/2011 12:34:15 AM PST by Apollo5600 (Cain 2012)
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To: TitansAFC

Spare me your hairsplitting. The Red Card white paper says this about its plan:

http://krieble.org/Websites/krieble/Images/files/Red%20Card%20Solution%20White%20Paper.pdf

“Turning a Complex Problem into a Simple Solution”


25 posted on 11/26/2011 4:24:47 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: TitansAFC
Why are you attacking the messenger? Was there something said about the Red Card that isn't true? Do you support amnesty?

Newt has a record, he was Speaker in the 90s when illegal immigration grew worse than ever. All we got under his leadership were more amnesties (six of them), no sealed borders, and no enforcement.

Did you know that in 1998 he stopped Clinton from enforcing employer sanctions? Now you expect us to believe that he'll get it all under control this time? That's a fool's errand.

34 posted on 11/26/2011 6:17:59 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: TitansAFC
Newt's plan is amnesty. It is old McCain/Kennedy wine in new bottles. Here are some excerpts:

2. Under no circumstance can a path to citizenship be created which would allow those who have broken the law to receive precedence over those who patiently waited to become residents and citizens via the legal process. Those who adhered to our immigration law cannot be usurped by those who violated it.

One of Newt's three principles. So Newt does envision a path to citizenship being created. It's just more "back of the line" crapola. Pay a fine, learn English, and get to the back of the line was the in the McCain/Kennedy bill.

The United States must control its border. It is a national security imperative.

Agreed. Newt fails to mention that 40% of the 12 to 20 million illegals came here legally and overstayed their visas. No mention of full implementation of the 1996 US-VISIT program to track and deport illegals.

“In-source” the best brains in the world. We have the best universities in the world, but many foreigners who come to study are turned away and sent back home as soon as they get their degree. It is foolish to educate someone well enough for them to start the next job-creating startup, only to force them to leave America and start their business overseas. We want the jobs here and that means we want the job creators here.

This could be done by allowing easier transition from an F (student) visa to an H1-B (high-skill) visa. Currently foreign students who want to work in the United States must leave the country and begin their application process from scratch. We should remove this inefficiency and allow qualified foreign students to transition immediately into the American workforce.

We have 25 million Americans looking for fulltime emplpoyment and close to 15 million without a job. How about we reform our education system and produce our own high skilled workers. We have the H1B visa program being used to import elementary school teachers from the Philippines. For example, 10% of the teachers in the Prince George's County, MD were H1B visas from the Philippines.

The student visa was never meant to be a pathway to citizenship or a green card. There are 720,000 foreign students in the US. The number has been increasing for the past five years. 90,000 of those students come from China. There are national security issues involved. We are bringing in 1.2 million legal immigrants a year, many of whom lack even a high school diploma. Instead of adding more workers via student visas, why not change to a merit based immigration system vice the current kinship system?

Today, the visa program for unskilled workers is cumbersome for employers and workers, and completely inflexible to the labor demands of the American economy. The number of temporary work visas granted stays capped, regardless of how many workers American businesses needs at any point – this is why, when the demand for additional labor is high, many foreigners come here to work illegally. The solution to this problem is a well-regulated, robust guest worker program.

We have no shortage of unskilled workers in this country. We do have 8 million illegal immigrants in the workforce, 7 million of whom are in non-agricultural jobs. Black unemployment is at 16% and Hispanics are at 11.3%. Businesses want to hire illegals because they are cheaper and more exploitable and there is an inexhaustible supply that just keeps depressing wages more and more.

The latest data show 22.1 million immigrants holding jobs in the U.S. with an estimated 8 million being illegal aliens. By increasing the supply of labor between 1980 and 2000, immigration reduced the average annual earnings of native-born men by an estimated $1,700 or roughly 4 percent. Among natives without a high school education, who roughly correspond to the poorest tenth of the workforce, the estimated impact was even larger, reducing their wages by 7.4 percent. The reduction in earnings occurs regardless of whether the immigrants are legal or illegal, permanent or temporary. It is the presence of additional workers that reduces wages, not their legal status.

Newt is in the pocket of the Chamber of Commerce. They want a "robust guest worker program" along with amnesty.

Create a path to earned legality for some of the millions of people who are here outside the law. There are currently anywhere from 8 to 12 million people living in the United States who entered illegally...Congress must charge the Department of Justice to establish a “citizens’ review” process for those here outside the law. It would establish committees to process these cases in individual communities and determine who will continue on this path to legality, and who will be sent home.

The government will rigorously enforce a requirement that all individuals seeking this path to legality must be able to prove that they can independently pay for private health insurance. If an individual cannot prove this, they will lose the ability to stay in the United States. Furthermore, proficiency in English within a certain number of years, similar to the requirement for naturalization, will be required for anyone who seeks continued legal status in the United States.

Once an applicant has been granted the right to obtain legal status, he or she will have to pay a penalty of at least $5,000.

No matter how much this con man tries to deny that this is an amnesty, the more rope he provides to hang himself. This is pure sophistry. Besides being unworkable and uneforceable, he sets up these community committees to determine who can stay and who must go. I guess he envisions them voluntarily stepping forward to be judged. Can you imagine such commissions in LA and SF or any of the other sanctuary cities and states in this country?

Newt wants a second class of LPRs who can never become citizens yet one of his principles is that they must get to the back of the line if a path to citizenship becomes available. They must be able to afford health insurance. Would they be eligible Obamacare subsidies like everyone else? Or EITC? I cannot imagine any court agreeing that we will treat these LPR's any differently than the current LPRs and other immigrants. We have 60 million on Medicaid today, many of them are illegal aliens who gain access thru their American born children. In fact, 57% of all immigrant headed households with children use at least one major welfare program.

Img src="http://www.cis.org/articles/2011/immigrant-welfare-use-4-11-t6.jpg">

Newt has set the price of admission to this country at $5,000. There are litterally billions in the world who would be willing to pay that fee and get the privilege of living and working here, having access to our educational and medical systems, clean water, etc.Deportation of criminals and gang members should be efficient and fast.

This is right out of McCain/Kenndy. McCain estimated that there are 2 million "criminal aliens." He said they should be deported "immediately." I guess we can deport 2 million immediately but not 8-11 million.

Politicians who respond that we should deport “criminal” illegal aliens and that “undocumented workers who play by the rules” should have their status regularized in some way by the federal government, i.e., pay a fine, learn English, and get to the back of the line on a earned path to citizenship are supporters of amnesty. Trying to create two classes of illegal aliens is a distinction without a difference, except if you are intent on treating them differently, i.e., providing one group with an amnesty.

Obama is currently implementing a backdoor amnesty. He is reviewing the 300,000 cases of illegals ordered deported and separating out the "criminal aliens" from the rest of law abiding illegal aliens. No real definition of what a criminal means. Illegal aliens have entered illegally, commited ID theft, worked illegal, guilty of tax evasion, etc. The criminals will be deported while the remaining will have their cases closed and be issued work permits thus legalizing their status.

Young non-citizens who came to the United States outside the law should have the same right to join the military and earn citizenship.

This was part of the Dream Act. Currently, the military does not accept any illegal aliens. They are ineligible to join. Legal permanent residents can join and receive an expeditied path to citizenship. Newt wants to enact one part of the Dream Act. The other path was for those illegal aliens enrolled in college. Do we really need illegal aliens in our military, which has been reduced in size. Surely we have enough LPRs and American citizens to meet our requirements. And once those illegal aliens obtain their citizenship, they can sponsor their relatives to join them here. This includes their parents, uncles, aunts, siblings, etc.

Anyone buying Newt's crap is not a conservative or they are too dumb to understand what is contained in Newt's plan. It is amnesty pure and simple.

56 posted on 11/26/2011 8:46:28 AM PST by kabar
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To: TitansAFC

57 posted on 11/26/2011 8:51:09 AM PST by kabar
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