Posted on 11/24/2011 7:18:49 AM PST by BarnacleCenturion
At the top of the Republican presidential pack, Newt Gingrich is poised for what some call the “Perry Plunge” for supporting part of the pro-immigrant DREAM Act.
Like former frontrunner Rick Perry, Gingrich became a target of criticism among fellow Republicans at Tuesday night’s nationally televised debate for saying that some people should be allowed to stay in the United States even if they’re here illegally.
(snip)
Gingrich’s comments were quickly blasted on conservative websites like Free Republic. The outrage with Gingrich underscored the danger of having a soft line on immigration as well as the tenuousness of leading the Republican field.
(Excerpt) Read more at miamiherald.com ...
What a load!
The goal is to let them stay, put down roots, grow their families then in a few years claim there's no way we can deport them. All it would take is for the democrats to re-control Congress.
Gingrich knows this, he wants amnesty but has to do it through baby steps given the opposition. It's the same as the Bush/Kennedy plan with the goal of free flow of labor in North America, just like the trucks they started letting in. But it'll be called a guest worker program to make it more palatable to the voters they think are idiots.
“For you to come onto this forum and shill for Gingrich or any other amnesty weakling is disgraceful. “
Oh, come on! I’ve done a lot of disgraceful things in my life, but that is hardly one of them!
I don’t agree. If we have a decent check in place to make certain non citizens can’t vote ( screw the traitor Democrats on this) very few Resident Aliens will go the extra mile and expense and education to get citizenship, of which being proficient in English should be mandatory, which is why printing ballots in Spanish is so freaking mental and aids and abets criminal
activity.
What an intelligent, pithy, and well-informed response!
*rolls eyes*
I think the media hasn’t brought it up because it is all public information that he has admitted to, taking the drama out of it. And she was just the last in a long line of mistresses.... It would be handing Obama the presidential election on a silver platter if he were the nominee.
“I have heard that today Ronald Reagan could not get elected and after reading a lot of the posts here I believe it.”
If Reagan still had his open-borders approach with 30,000,000 ILLEGALS in the country, he wouldn’t DESERVE to be elected.
But we will never know how he would have approached Illegal Immigration if he were dealing with 20 times the estimated problem, and the direct threat it imposes on American culture.
What you fail to realize is that legal residency is what an illegal alien really wants. More jobs are open to him, it makes his life much easier plus he can glom onto welfare programs now. He could care less about citizenship. An amnesty that allows legal residency for border jumpers is poisonous and will only encourage more of the same. It is bad enough that the USA born spawn of illegal aliens are US citizens
Mitt Romney has no intention of either securing the border or trying to deport 11 million people. He is just skirting around the issue in hopes of getting elected.
What Newt is suggesting is not extreme. I am totally opposed to amnesty and spent a great deal of time working with Numbers USA in the last amnesty fight. A few people are probably going to have to stay because to be precise Newt said that “the american public” (not him) will not be able to stomach watching the govt drag people out of their homes and deported. The MSM would be covering it 24-7. You would see hysterical people being put on buses and taken to detention centers for deportation. After a couple of days of Christiane Amanpour, Anderson Cooper and Brian Wilson frowning and shaking their heads as they televised every gory detail the public would be outraged.
The reality is that likely only a small percentage would meet the tight criteria of 20-25 years in country, speaking english, wanting US citizenship, paying taxes, owning a home and ensconced in the community. Most illegal aliens have no interest in learning english or becoming a US citizen. If you offered them amnesty/citizenship only a few will even come out of the shadows. Most are here as parasites to get the freebies, pay no taxes, send money home and hopefully save up enough to go back to Mexico and buy a house.
So, we let a few stay and then enforce the laws and secure the border and try to get the rest to self deport or catch and release as many as possible. If you take away the magnets they won’t want to come here anyway.
Good luck with that. The reason the liberals are fighting the Alabama and Arizona laws so hard is because those aren't illegal aliens to them but undocumented democrats. They know even the illegals vote and their anchor babies will too when they grow up.
What Newt is suggesting is not extreme. I am totally opposed to amnesty and spent a great deal of time working with Numbers USA in the last amnesty fight. A few people are probably going to have to stay because to be precise Newt said that “the american public” (not him) will not be able to stomach watching the govt drag people out of their homes and deported. The MSM would be covering it 24-7. You would see hysterical people being put on buses and taken to detention centers for deportation. After a couple of days of Christiane Amanpour, Anderson Cooper and Brian Wilson frowning and shaking their heads as they televised every gory detail the public would be outraged.
The proponents of amnesty are wont to create the false choice between a blanket amnesty and mass deportation of 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. In reality, we have other choices and alternatives that don’t reward people who have broken our laws with the right to stay and work here and an eventual path to citizenship. The 12 to 20 million illegal aliens did not enter this country overnight and they will not leave overnight. Attrition through enforcement works. We have empirical data from Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arizona proving that it does.
Why is it so urgent that we legalize the presence of any illegal aliens? No one is suggesting mass deportation. Attrition thru enforcement and securing our borders including fully implementing the US-VISIT program to track down visa overstays are what is needed most. I am sure you saw Roy Beck's reply to Newt's plan. He certainly thinks Newt's plan is extreme.
The reality is that likely only a small percentage would meet the tight criteria of 20-25 years in country, speaking english, wanting US citizenship, paying taxes, owning a home and ensconced in the community. Most illegal aliens have no interest in learning english or becoming a US citizen. If you offered them amnesty/citizenship only a few will even come out of the shadows. Most are here as parasites to get the freebies, pay no taxes, send money home and hopefully save up enough to go back to Mexico and buy a house.
What kind of message does that send to legal immigrants who followed the law or to illegals waiting overseas to get into the country. Either we believe in the Rule of Law or we do not. We had a one-time amnesty 25 years ago this November. So those who came here illegally 25 or 20 years ago came after we had an amnesty. At the time of the 1986 amnesty there were about 5 million illegal aliens. 3 million received amnesty. We now have 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. I still do not understand the urgency or pressure to legalize the illegal aliens. You can't be a little bit pregnant and create a class of illegals that should have their status legalized.
>>Why give any of the lawbreakers green cards? They have flaunted our laws by entering illegally, working illegally, commiting ID theft, driving illegally, etc.<<
Put another way, they have entered our country to work and have done so for years, often without receiving the benefits earned by those working beside them, in order to provide for their families.
Look, you no doubt think I’m an addle-headed liberal, while I think you have no sense of fairness. But sometimes there IS a middle ground in these matters.
For example, what if you’re talking about a 35-year old man whose parents brought him here as a 10-year-old child, and both are now dead, while he has managed to graduate from high school and college, and is now a respected, say, EMT, teacher, or accountant in your home town. By your standards, he’s to be sent home, regardless. By mine, he’s to be given a chance to ‘fess up and be given a green card, and yes, even a path to eventual citizenship. Oh, and bear in mind that he might have married an American citizen and be the father of two or three American citizens as well.
If you can’t see some sense in treating some cases differently, then you simply have no sense of fairness. At least that’s the way that I see it, but maybe you can convince me otherwise. Yes, it’s amnesty, I’ll concede that point, but it’s a hell of a lot different from the blanket amnesty that the word tends to be associated with in these discussions.
>>Frank Sharry is one of the most vile Leftists in this country.<<
He might indeed be as you describe; that doesn’t mean what he said isn’t true, however, at least in this case.
This is why I want Perry to gain ground again. He at least shows some understanding of the need to find a middle ground on the illegal immigration problem, a middle ground that doesn’t flush the GOP’s chances of ever getting a sizable share of the Hispanic vote.
The way the far-right of the GOP talks (and on most issues, I’m in that number, by the way) the Democrats don’t have to say a word to get the Hispanic vote. All they have to do is stand mute and let us do the talking. Once we’re done, no Hispanic in his right mind would vote for the GOP.
We’re better than that. At least I always thought we were. Maybe I’m wrong.
>>They would not become citizens unless they apply and go through the standard process like any other immigrant who wants citizenship. What is being talked about is them becoming Resident Aliens, and only after certain conditions are met. <<
Ah, but you see, the rapid anti-immigrant crowd in the far-right of the GOP wants them all to go home because THEY BROKE THE LAW. There’s no reasoning with them beyond the concept that THEY BROKE THE LAW. And we all know that once THEY BROKE THE LAW, there is only one course of action possible - send them back where they came from.
And to hell with the circumstances. Yeah, the kid was only five when his now-deceased parents brought him here, but, hey, THEY BROKE THE LAW!
Right?
Thank you Georgia Girl...a voice of sanity stressing the possibility (imagine that) that there’s a middle ground in all this...
Well one thing is for sure before we make any decisions about letting a few illegals stay that border needs to be buttoned down real tight. Thats the deal breaker for me. And we need to make sure the enforcement is going forward so we start to see self deportation in really large numbers. The states will have to be allowed to refuse to enroll ilegals in the school system and no more welfare, no more free health care except emergencies etc. etc. Its going to be difficult.
I applaud Newt for trying to have a conversation about it but I think he is going to find out if he gets elected that securing the border is going to be a real political hot potato. The Mexican government will be throwing a daily fit about it.
Even a squater can become owner of the land he is on if he can prove he lived there so many years and paid taxes on it...
Most crimes have a statute of limitations.
Looks like pretty conservative principles to me. It’s funny, many of those that lambaste Newt for his views on immigration have no alternatives themselves other than to broadly say “seal the border”. Newt has stated his ardent desire t seal the border, so that’s really off the table going forward in the discussion.
The question then is, what do we do w/ the tens of millions that are already here. Mass deportation just isn’t logical from a variety of standpoints. Newt wants to put in place policies that would encourage self deportation. That’s conservative! He wants to do away w/ welfare for illegals. That’s conservative! He also wants to create a way for those who have been here for a long time & actually contribute to our country to be able to stay here legally without any of the rights of citizenship such as VOTING, welfare, or being able to sponsor others to come here. I don’t see a problem w/ that given the lack of realistic alternatives.
Many of those so against Newt’s illegals policies here I find to have been against Newt even before the debate. I guess they feel this gives them legitimacy for their line of thinking. Unfortunately, many are looking into the realities of what Newt is proposing, & they actually like what they’re seeing.
Let’s look at this pragmatically. They did break the law. However, it was OUR OWN government, led by the liberals, who were encouraging them TO break the law, telling them there would be no consequences. Many illegals came here w/ good intent based on what our government was essentially telling them.
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