[MiddleEarth]

Thank-you for your thorough yet respectful response. I understand this is a sensitive subject and I appreciate someone willing to discuss it without getting angry.

First of all, I am in no way for opening up our borders to Mexico, not by a long shot. We need some way to keep more people from coming in here. And no, the illegals have not had success with their arguments, in fact my change has come about more by seeing the vitriol with which so many on our side talk about the illegals. I saw that our anger has turned us (not you specifically) somewhat irrational and certainly unChristian.

I also understand how the flood of illegals has caused a lot of problems for the US. I’m not against sending many of them back either. I’m saying that some have been here for so long and are really good people who are not trying to drain our resources. I’m also saying every person has dignity and needs to be treated as such no matter what we decide to do with them. I don’t think you disagree with that.

You have said that those who come here illegally have ushered in the violence and crimes that the thugs from Mexico have brought forth. In my Canada scenario, if you had gone to Canada with your family illegally along with millions of other Americans, would you be responsible for the murderers and gang members who also came into Canada illegally from the US? I wouldn’t blame you and your kids for those criminals.

I think many illegals need to be deported but not all and we need to start documenting everyone and we most certainly need to secure our borders. Most of all, we need to remember that each of us is an individual and Jesus didn’t say, “Whatsoever you did to the least of my American citizens, you did to Me.” Whatsoever we do to the least of His people...

Again, this is not saying you don’t think that too but I’m saying in general. I have seen such down right hatred for illegals that THAT is what has changed my view. Hatred is not from God.

Anyway, off to Thanksgiving duties so I’m not sure when I’ll be back. Happy Thanksgiving to you!

[DoughtyOne]

Thank-you for your thorough yet respectful response. I understand this is a sensitive subject and I appreciate someone willing to discuss it without getting angry.

I think you should know that while I am patient on this subject, I'm am running out of patience.  Truth be told, I have had it with people who can think of every rationale in the book to excuse what the long term illegal has done here, but can't seem to find a rational reason to put our foot down and stop it.  If someone has screwed us over for ten, twenty, thirty, or more years, they've somehow achieved a status where some folks want to now gift them the keys to the golden gates, because they've been so good at screwing my parents, myself, my wife, my children, and their children, not to mention my sibling's and friend's families over.  How that seems logical to some people is beyond me.  At some point, it is rational for people like me to be furious about what has taken place.  I reached that level by the mid-1980s, and here we are nearing 2012, and I'm still having folks tell me I'm just not very caring.

How caring was it for me to spend upwards of $20,000 for private schooling for my young children, when we couldn't afford to purchase a home or decent vehicles during that time frame?  I couldn't use the local schools to educate my children, so we forked over education funds that should have been available for other things.  Now you want to reward people who were around then, because "It's just the right thing to do."

How much equity did my family lose out on?  How many vacations did we have to pass up?  How negatively was our standard of living impacted?  Does that negative impact still exist today, and to what extent does it still exist?  We're talking decades here.

This may be academic to you, but I can honestly see a lasting impact on my family that goes back over 25 years.  I don't dwell on it.  In fact this is the first time I have thought of it this way.  Around 1980, I lost out on the ability to purchase a brand new home for my young family.  I did so because finances were tight back then, and my kids were in private school.  Within ten years the property we just missed being able to purchase, increased 400% in value. That equity would have served my family incredibly well.  The payments on that home would have been less than our rent.  The presures on that family were increased.  This played into a failed marriage.  It wasn't the main problem, but family dynamics are significantly impacted by negative influences such as this.

Then folks try to float the idea, I'm not a caring guy.  Wow.

First of all, I am in no way for opening up our borders to Mexico, not by a long shot. We need some way to keep more people from coming in here. And no, the illegals have not had success with their arguments, in fact my change has come about more by seeing the vitriol with which so many on our side talk about the illegals. I saw that our anger has turned us (not you specifically) somewhat irrational and certainly unChristian.

I want you to think about what I wrote up above.  Despite what I wrote up there, I do live well today.  That doesn't mean that this wasn't a significant impact on my family and I.  How "Christian" is it of you to explain to me what Christianity is all about, while ignoring the fact that $20,000 was siphened off my young family's income, as a direct result of illegal aliens in my community?

At a time when I was paying the full boat to cover my family's health care bills, the illegals were getting their services for free.

I also understand how the flood of illegals has caused a lot of problems for the US. I’m not against sending many of them back either. I’m saying that some have been here for so long and are really good people who are not trying to drain our resources. I’m also saying every person has dignity and needs to be treated as such no matter what we decide to do with them. I don’t think you disagree with that.

Where was my "deserved" dignity in the 1980s?  BTW, you should realized that amnesty was granted in 1986 - 1990.  What we're discussing here, are the people who gamed our system directly after that, to come here so they could get amnesty the next time.  That's willful planning to game our system.  I'm supposed to be sympathetic to people doing that?  Why not claim that we should feel sympathy for bank robbers too, since their families could certainly use the funds?  What's the diff?

You have said that those who come here illegally have ushered in the violence and crimes that the thugs from Mexico have brought forth. In my Canada scenario, if you had gone to Canada with your family illegally along with millions of other Americans, would you be responsible for the murderers and gang members who also came into Canada illegally from the US? I wouldn’t blame you and your kids for those criminals.

I hate to break it to you, but I respect the laws of the land.  I don't break them.  I don't try to justify breaking them.  If I don't like them, I try to get the laws changed, or the leadership changed so that laws will be favorably impacted.  For that reason I'm not going to try to play into a scenario where illegals, bank robbers, murderers, rapists, or any other criminal can be sympathized with when they break laws.

I think many illegals need to be deported but not all and we need to start documenting everyone and we most certainly need to secure our borders. Most of all, we need to remember that each of us is an individual and Jesus didn’t say, “Whatsoever you did to the least of my American citizens, you did to Me.” Whatsoever we do to the least of His people...

There's no need to document illegals.  If they aren't here legally, they get sent back home.  PERIOD!  If they have bought a home here, liquidate it and return the funds to the U.S. Treasury.  It was purchased in no small part with funds this person didn't have to pay because they could get goods and serviced for free, that I and my family couldn't.  Why should I feel sorry for them?  Good grief.  Do we allow bank robbers to keep all the goods they purchase with stolen money?  Do we allow drug dealers to benefit from their crimes?

Again, this is not saying you don’t think that too but I’m saying in general. I have seen such down right hatred for illegals that THAT is what has changed my view. Hatred is not from God.

I don't have to hate human beings, to hate what they have done.  Breaking the laws of our nation was a sin.  Causing extreme negative financial impact on U.S. Citizen's lives was a sin.  Even God loves the sinner and hates the sin.  Do you remember what the wages of evil are?  Sin is evil.  I am only demanding that they be sent back to the home of their origin.  Beyond that and the confiscation of their monetary gains, I wish them well in Mexico.  I don't gain happiness from seeing the negative plight of others, but by the same token, I don't gain happiness at being an unwilling door-mat for other humans.

Anyway, off to Thanksgiving duties so I’m not sure when I’ll be back. Happy Thanksgiving to you!

Same to you.