Posted on 11/20/2011 8:51:58 PM PST by smokingfrog
A Spotsylvania County man with a valid concealed-weapon permit died after a semi-automatic pistol without an external safety discharged as he tried to adjust the weapon, which was tucked into his waistband, investigators have concluded.
The 45-year-old man was sitting in the front seat of his family's minivan in a shopping center parking lot on Sunday when his .40-caliber Glock discharged, authorities said.
"For some reason, maybe for comfort, he reached out and went to adjust it," said Spotsylvania sheriff's Capt. Liz Scott. "The detective thinks that in doing so — in just grabbing it — he inadvertently grabbed the trigger."
"This particular weapon does not have an external safety," Scott added.
The single shot struck the man in the hip and he bled to death in a matter of minutes, the captain said.
The incident is at least the second in Virginia in 15 months in which a concealed-carry permit holder accidentally shot himself in public.
On Sept. 11, 2010, a Bedford County man with a permit accidentally shot himself in the thigh at a Lynchburg restaurant as he apparently reached into his pants pocket to pay a bartender for a beer. The .45-caliber Glock 36 was unholstered. Permit holders are not permitted to drink alcohol in restaurants while carrying a concealed weapon.
The man was later convicted of recklessly handing a firearm, given a 30-day suspended jail sentence and fined $500. He also was ordered to give up his concealed-carry permit for a year.
In the Spotsylvania case, police said the victim was sitting inside his family's van with his four children outside the Giant grocery store in the Harrison Crossing shopping center.
(Excerpt) Read more at 2.timesdispatch.com ...
I see just the opposite and have hand a lot of experience in the military. When I carry, it’s always holstered, round in the pipe.
“That’s why, out of tens of millions of Glocks, there’s so many accidental firings... oh, wait a minute... “
There actually have been. New York City even had the trigger changed because of it. Don’t even try to claim there are no NDs with Glocks.
“The difference here is I always carry in the proper holster. Always.”
Exactly. All firearms can be a hazard if carried commando. Safeties have been known to disengage.
“Don’t need a mechanical safety IF you realize your BRAIN is your primary safety with ANY weapon.”
And if YOU had a brain you’d realize humans make mistakes, hence the term “safety”.
“I know, off topic and I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest between the 9mm and the .45, but it is expensive to shoot and become proficient with a .45”
OK, then why make such a stupid statement if you don’t want a pissing contest?
My fiancee’ bought his XDM for the same reason.
Although the pull through on a Glock is so hard I can’t believe you could discharge it accidentally.
Note: Standard trigger pull is rated at around 5.5 lbs for the stock “out of the box” Glock. (”NY Trigger”)
As to whether the shorter length of the Glock’s trigger pull is less safe than a revolver at 10 lbs; I suppose to some extent that is a subjective judgment; depending upon how well trained the shooter is. There are also trade-offs for safety vs accuracy w/the longer/heavier trigger pull ...which, I suppose, also has safety implications if one considers the possibility of collateral damage in a high stress, self defense situation.
Personally, I think it is best to rely upon good training; i.e.: keeping the tip of one’s trigger finger rested against the frame of the Glock just above the trigger guard. If my finger goes inside the trigger guard it is because I intend to shoot something.
Here's a link to a good discussion on the Glock trigger pull issue you allude to. It has some interesting data from actual measurements:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_50/ai_n6209982/
Understood. No worries.
Regards,
-Geoff
Only if we're talking about a single-action revolver with the hammer cocked.
With respect to safety, a Glock is not the same as a double-action revolver that's not cocked.
As has been stated already, striker-fired and SA autopistols in general and Glocks in particular are not the best choice for carry in any fashion that leaves the trigger guard exposed.
An "external" safety can be easily and unintentionally deactivated IWB, and is no panacea compared to a true DAO auto or revolver.
Ultimately, if you IWB or deep conceal, consider a holster or true DAO.
I DO have a brain, and that is why, with ALL of the weapons handling and shooting I've dome all of these years, I have NEVER had a negligent discharge (there is no such thing as an accidental discharge).
This guy was a dumbass, plain and simple.
If you have a round in the Glock chamber (which normally gets there by virtue of the slide stripping a round out of the magazine) and rounds in all chambers of a revolver, then pulling the trigger on either firearm will result in a bang. Any belief in “safe action” beyond that point requires too many fairy tale best wishes for my comfort. I have, and use, Glocks, but Mr. Glock isn’t going to be there to comfort my family if I rely too much on his marketing abilities.
Going back to the original story, my guess is that somehow the Glock trigger was pulled.
Activating the trigger on a Glock is easier than the trigger on a double-action revolver.
Just here in the FR archive, there are numerous recorded incidents of Glock mishandling negligent discharges that would not likely happen with a double-action revolver and would never happen with an Hk P7 automatic.
A Glock is mechanically engineered to not be able to be a confidently prevented from accidental/negligent discharge as other competing designs with features such as grip safeties and DA/SA trigger operation.
Those who carry Glocks for CCW need to honestly understand they're carrying a cocked single-action pistol. The Glock was intended as a military sidearm using a military holster, not a dedicated CCW piece like a S&W Model 36 or a Colt Detective Special.
I often carry a Glock 19.
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