Posted on 11/13/2011 1:17:21 PM PST by yup2394871293
I wouldn’t be against unconventional war with them.
Our government is wrong about a great many things. As it is now, I think it is almost a certainty that a US city will be devastated by a nuclear weapon within 10 years. Our own forbearance will not have protected us at all.
From Afghanistan? Were we are in the mist of fighting an insurgency?
Really think we can run our logistics tail for a major operation in Iran thru there?
>>The Arab Spring uprisings induced by Iranian proxies haunts many Middle Eastern nations.<<
.
Then let them do something about it instead of expecting the infidel West to solve Muslim problems.
Let them consume one another.
Nope.
Why Iraq
One of the really infuriating things in modern politics is the level of disinformation, misinformation, demagoguery and out right lying going on about the mission in Iraq. Democrats have spent the last 3+ years lying about Iraq out of a political calculation. The assumption is that the natural isolationist mindset of the average American voter, linked to the inherent Anti Americanism (what is misnamed the “Anti War movement”) of the more feverish Democrat activists (especially those running the US’s National “News” media) would restore them to national political dominance. The truth is the Democrat Party Leadership has simply lacked the courage to speak truth to whiners. The truth is that even if Al Gore won the 2000 election and 09-11 still happened we would be doing the EXACT same things in Iraq we are doing now.
Based on the political situation in the region left over from the 1991 Gulf War plus the domestic political consensus built up in BOTH parties since 1991 as well as fundamental military strategic laws, there was NO viable strategic choice for the US but to take out Iraq after finishing the initial operations in Afghanistan.
To start with Saddam’s Iraq was our most immediate threat. We could NOT commit significant military forces to another battle with Saddam hovering undefeated on our flank nor could we leave significant forces watching Saddam. The political containment of Iraq was breaking down. That what Oil for Food was all about. Oil for Food was an attempt by Iraq to break out of it’s diplomatic isolation and slip the shackles the UN Sanctions put on it’s military. There there was the US Strategic position to consider.
The War on Islamic Fascism is different sort of war. in facing this Asymmetrical threat, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone.
Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The “Holy” soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is mostly neutral in terms of guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).
Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map? Iraq, for which we had the political, legal and moral justifications to attack, is the strategic high ground of the Middle East. A Geographic barrier that severs ground communication between Iran and Syria apart as well as providing another front of attack in either state or into Saudi Arabia if needed.
There were other reasons to do Iraq but here is the strategic military reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.
Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect” to understand. It’s so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like “No Blood for Oil” or “We support the Troops, bring them home” or dumbest of all “We are creating terrorists” then to actually THINK.
Westerners in general, and the US citizens in particular seem to have trouble grasping the fundamental fact of this foe. These Islamic Fascists have NO desire to co-exist with them. The extremists see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. There is simply no way to coexist with people who completely believe their “god” will reward them for killing us.
So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest of the Jihadists realize we are serious. They same way killing enough Germans, Italians and Japanese eliminated the ideologies of Nazism, Fascism and Bushido.
Americans need to understand how Bin Laden and his ilk view us. In the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming “We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad” and recruit the next round of “holy warriors”. Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11-01 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it -
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
Winston Churchill
‘Die Welt’: Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela (17 May 2011)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2721122/posts
Iran readies launch of new satellite
(Iran's second satellite launch, 11/09/2009
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2382720/posts
Russia, N.Korea, China give Iran missile aid -CIA
09/08/01
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/519198/posts
Iran military engineers on hand for N. Korea missile launch
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1664760/posts
(7/12/06)
10 Iranian Missile Engineers Visited N. Korea:Sankei reports(check on NK’s Chinese equipments)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1658850/posts
(07/01/06)
S. Korea, U.S. verifying reports on test of new N.K. missile in Iran: source
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1834307/posts
(4,000 kilometer range—will reach the Vatican—May 16th, 2007)
US confirms Iran launch of first home-built satellite
afp ^ | 2-03-09 | staff
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2177582/posts
Iran Satellite Launch Heightens Missile Development Concerns
By Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, Feb. 3, 2009
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=52939
Iran hails successful launch of satellite rocket
Posted on Wed 03 Feb 2010 02:51:50 AM MST
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2443266/posts
>>I think it has been a great mistake for the US not to use nuclear weapons against rogue nations developing nuclear capability.<<
.
Hell, we’re still agonizing and incriminating ourselves about the fact that we dropped two nukes, every August 6.
This attitude will only change after we get nuked ourselves.
If Harry Truman was President right now, he wouldn’t hesitate one second using nukes to take out Iran’s capability of destroying Israel. Harry was the key instrument in Israel being granted statehood in 1948. They say he was so overjoyed that tears flowed down his cheeks.
Excerpt:
“However, the effects produced by a nuclear explosion were not fully realized until the “Johnston Island Test” in 1962. This nuclear blast had a yield of 1.4 megatons at an altitude of 250 miles. The explosion damaged a number of low earth orbit satellites and caused malfunctions and early failure of others. Another effect that was noted during the blast was a blackout up to 600 miles away of high frequency radio communications that lasted for hours. It was caused by disruption of the ionosphere. It also popped circuit breakers, street lights went out, burglar alarms rang, and power lines went down in Honolulu, about 800 miles away. In Nov. 1962, all above ground testing was halted and our testing and analysis was limited to underground testing, analysis of the existing atmospheric test data, nonnuclear simulation, and theoretical calculations.”
Yep, the Forgotten War, as my late father called it (a U.S. Army vet, Korean War, ‘52)
Ten years ago we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and subsequent years bogged down in counter insurgency and nation building. After Americans are wary of the casualties and costs, not in a mood to attack Iran. It may have been cheap, but US public support was spent five years ago. Add the financial meltdown of 2008, chances for American support for another overseas adventure is nil. The only Americans freaking out are the Jews because their homeland is ground zero for Iranian madness. Rest of America wants our forces home. NOTE: This is not a Ron Paul rant against Jews, but my 2 cents of what I see. Welcome any other opinions.
As it was, Thunder Run definitely shocked more than the Iraqis. - It stunned all of the so called experts on our militay who forecast 1,000s of causalities and months of street fighting ala, Stalingrad.
Still, that being said, the naysayers were right beck dishing out the same crap about Fallujah
Screw bunker buster, turn those savages and every mountain and valley into molten glass.
Tell the king of saudia arabia, {our pals} they have one month to shut down every saudia sponsored foreign madrassa, or mecca and medina will be next.
Tell the ISI in POCK-E-Stahn, they have one month to turn every nuclear device over to a control group headed by NATO, or if they don't look to the glass flow in iran to see what comes next.
If we have to melt one or two hundred million mooselimbs and several million others, so be it.
The mooselimbs have invaded and now control 57 states {countries} if we don't stop them, the future is bleak.
Before we apply my tag line to N Korea, we tell the chinese that we are going to level N Korea, and if they interfere we have them as part A-1 on the attack plan.
If they blink take out every nuclear device in china.
How many thousands dead, how many trillions in spending, and how many years of nation building is Iran worth?
“Senior Iranian’s son murdered by same method as Hamas’ Mabhouh”
DEBKAfile Special Report
November 13, 2011,
http://debka.com/article/21479/
I never thought that invading Iran was a viable option. Instead, we should have just taken out key infrastructure, including bases and nuclear facilities. That would have beeen relatively cheap and would have sent a strong message that we wouldn’t tolerate them going nuclear—or messing with us in any way.
We could still do some of these things today, but it would be much harder. I’m sure much of Iran’s nuclear weapons program is covert and underground. No doubt we know about most of it, but perhaps not enough.
Iran has been a thorn in our side and their declarations about the destruction of a key ally (Israel) is unacceptable. They need to get spanked—hard. We could set them back decades without one soldier stepping foot on Iranian soil.
How do you raise their millions of victims from the grave after they attack the mainland United States? Did we want Hitler or Tojo to acquire muclear weapons?
That was one hell of a posting. And you brought up stuff that, I suspect, most people on this site cannot even deal with, such as the situation with Iraq prior to our invasion. We tend to forget stuff such as the Saddam’s clear non-compliance with the terms that ended the Kuwait war.
The time to prevent it was 7 or 8 years ago. But we were busy.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.