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To: Mase

If you had even bothered reading the article, you would see that a large part of it focuses on the side effects of Prozac.

Side effects that were known for decades, but which were basically covered up until a scientist spilled the beans.

So any statements about “proven safe and effective” are mere ramblings.

As far as claims made by supplement makers, you know VERY WELL that the FDA PROHIBITS supplement makers from making medical claims. Any claims that are made are made by researchers doing long term clinical studies, or just ad hoc research, individual testimonies are automatically dumped and called anecdotal and unreliable.

You come on these threads and attack them, and sometimes the people personally.
I - me - I - didn’t make the claims about vitamins versus prescription meds, I just posted an article.

I’ve read your posts, I know you were in R&D. No doubt something in the food industry. Based on your defense of HFCS, I suspect corn growing/ processing. Is that true, Maize?

Me, I work on computers. I don’t sell vitamins or supplements. But I do read alot about them.

And I do know one thing. That MOST of the time you hear claims about vitamins/supplements, it’s a short hop, skip, and a jump over to the PUBMED database where you can READ FOR YOURSELF the clinical studies and results that support those claims.


25 posted on 11/03/2011 2:39:21 PM PDT by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: djf
If you had even bothered reading the article, you would see that a large part of it focuses on the side effects of Prozac

Yeah, great. Let's look at the title again - 27 Years - No Deaths from Vitamins, 3 Million from Prescription Drugs.

Now employ some common sense and tell me what that title means. I'll tell you: The title is communicating the belief that sophisticated compounds designed to combat complex diseases are analogous in some way to vitamins. That is stupid, stupid, stupid.

I don't care about Prozac or any alleged cover up of any side effects. That is simply a distraction from the fact that this title was meant to communicate that supplements are under siege while big bad pharmaceutical kills millions.

So any statements about “proven safe and effective” are mere ramblings.

It's apparent that you have no idea the process a NME must go through to be commercialized. That doesn't surprise me. You also don't understand the difference between a clinical trial involving thousands of subjects and a full scale product launch involving millions. Human physiology being what it is, it shouldn't come as a surprise that negative side effects occur. All medicines come with risks and benefits. Are you also an anti-vaccine crusader because one person in a million has a bad reaction to the drug?

As far as claims made by supplement makers, you know VERY WELL that the FDA PROHIBITS supplement makers from making medical claims. Any claims that are made are made by researchers doing long term clinical studies, or just ad hoc research, individual testimonies are automatically dumped and called anecdotal and unreliable.

LOL! This is what happens when your knowledge of a subject is limited to a text book or some magazine. That may sound good to you in theory, but I assure you it is very different in practice. A dietary supplement must be proven unsafe before it is removed from store shelves. Dietary supplement manufacturers can introduce new products without providing the Food and Drug Administration with any testing for safety or efficacy. They don't even have to put safety warnings on the labels even if it's a product with known serious hazards or possible drug interactions. But you think any claims must be backed up by research and long term clinical studies, right? I guess you missed the whole ephedra problem.

Maybe you also missed all those supplements laced with sibutramine and sildenafil. Not good. Then there was Boyd Haley, who was selling an industrial chelator as a dietary supplement to treat autistic children. He must have missed the FDA rule prohibiting supplement makers from making medical claims. You should look up a company called Xano and the mangosteen juice they were hawking. They claimed that studies showed their juice was “anti-tumor,” “anti-obesity,” “anti-aging,” “anti-fatigue,” “antiviral,” “antibiotic” and “antidepressant.” They wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, right? I mean, the FDA says that's prohibited.

Then there's CVS who paid millions to settle with the FTC over claims made about their AirShield 'Immune Boosting' supplement. Did you see where Airborne had to pay tens of millions because they falsely advertised their "Miracle Cold Buster." And what about that product called "Cold Away?" Who knew a combination of Chinese herbs could cure your cold? How about that Harvard professor who teamed up with Shaklee to promote their Vivix Cellular Anti-Aging Tonic that he publicly claimed offered life-extending properties? He left the company when the media called Shaklee out over this arrangement. Let's not even bother with all the claims made directly, or through surrogates, about ginko biloba (dementia and Alzheimer's) or with anti-oxidants (cancer). Now I see where hormones like DHEA and melatonin are being hawked as supplements. That's as nutty as the title of the article you posted.

Yes, the FDA says that food supplement labels cannot claim to cure or prevent disease. But that doesn't stop manufacturers from doing exactly that. Food supplement manufacturers regularly make medicinal claims that are difficult to verify.

You come on these threads and attack them, and sometimes the people personally.

You posted an article with an absurd title. I have to assume that you agree with the title since you posted it and defend your understanding of the subject. If calling that "dumb" offends you then so be it. Don't post dumb articles in the future.

I’ve read your posts, I know you were in R&D. No doubt something in the food industry. Based on your defense of HFCS

I don't defend HFCS. I don't even like the product. I'd much rather they used sucrose to sweeten my beverages. What I do defend is sound science. There is a lot of junk science promoted on this forum, and when it is promoted as something other than what it is, I point it out.

I suspect corn growing/ processing. Is that true, Maize?

Maize? Did you think that up all by yourself? I have nothing to do with corn growing or processing. Being the chemicalphobe that you are, do you also fear corn and corn processing? People fear the things they don't understand.

Me, I work on computers

Good for you. You should stay there. You'd go hungry trying to make a living in anything requiring a knowledge of food science.

But I do read alot about them.

You should add basic chemistry, biology and nutrition to your reading list.

That MOST of the time you hear claims about vitamins/supplements, it’s a short hop, skip, and a jump over to the PUBMED database where you can READ FOR YOURSELF the clinical studies and results that support those claims.

I suppose that would depend on the claims now, wouldn't it? That's the thing about research today....there is so much of it you can find research to support just about any ridiculous claim you want to make. That's where separating fact from fiction becomes a little more challenging. Don't believe everything you read....you'll end up posting silly articles that attempt to equate highly sophisticated chemical compounds with vitamin C.

34 posted on 11/03/2011 9:15:51 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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