Posted on 10/20/2011 7:24:57 AM PDT by Colofornian
At an appearance at George Washington University...Bill Maher bounded into territory that the news media have been gingerly tiptoeing around.
Magic underwear. Baptizing dead people. Celestial marriages. Private planets. Racism. Polygamy.
“By any standard, Mormonism is more ridiculous than any other religion”...“It’s...founded on the idea of polygamy. They call it The Principle. That sounds like The Prime Directive in ‘Star Trek.’ ”
He said he expects the Romney crowd...to once more “gloss over the differences between Christians and Mormons.”
SNIP
Another famous nonbeliever, Christopher Hitchens, wrote in Slate...about “the weird and sinister belief system of the LDS”...
Aside from Joseph Smith, whom Hitchens calls “a fraud and conjurer well known to the authorities in upstate New York,” the writer also wonders about the Mormon practice of amassing archives of the dead...to “retrospectively ‘baptize’ everybody as a convert.”
Hitchens noted that they “got hold of a list of those put to death by the Nazis’ Final Solution” and “began making these massacred Jews into honorary LDS members as well.” He called it “a crass attempt at mass identity theft from the deceased.”
The Mormons even baptized Anne Frank.
It took Ernest Michel, then chairman of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, three years to get Mormons to agree to stop proxy-baptizing Holocaust victims.
SNIP
Kent Jackson, the associate dean of religion at Brigham Young University, says that while Mormons are Christians, “Mormonism is not part of the Christian family tree.”
It probably won’t comfort skeptical evangelicals and Catholics to know that Mormons think that while other Christians merely “have a portion of the truth, what God revealed to Joseph Smith is the fullness of the truth,” as Jackson says...
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
THIS what?
That’s ridiculous. He won’t be a different president, because of his religion.
The one's that FR FIs haven't gotten to yet.
If MORMONs REALLY don't want OBAMA for 4 more years; THEY would tell Mitt to quit!
Maybe the current Prophet will tell Mitt to stand down.....considering the S**t storm that might be coming for the mormon religion.
When they consider the $$$ angle...LDS, Inc. will take action. Take that to the bank.
And you know this, how?
He was governor of Mass., and didn’t have allegiance to his religion. Don’t attack Mormons.
Just speaking honestly.
My question still stands...How do you know Mitt won't/didn't let his religion sway his decisions.
Fact is, you don't. Period.
Are you a mormon?
No, I’m not a Mormon. I told you, he didn’t let it affect him when he was governor. Don’t mislead people.
And you have no idea his religion wouldn't sway him as POTUS.
Don't assume you know that...
And quit thinking you know everything.
You don't.
How do you know that one of the other candidate’s religion would affect them?
How do you know that one of the other candidate’s religion would affect them? [your post #72]
How do you know Politics that it didn't effect him?
Romney was pro-abortion when he ran for Guv in '02. Supposedly pro-life before the end of '04. Told the people @ a May '05 press conference that he would maintain the status-quo on abortion. Expanded taxpayer-funded abortion with RomneyCare in '06, also allowing Planned Parenthood to have a permanent member on the board overseeing RomneyCare. And then by early '07 was claiming everything he did as Guv was "pro-life."
Kind of sounds like Mormon leaders who've set similar examples for Mitt, doesn't it? Polygamy is an abomination per the 1830-published Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith is practicing polygamy by 1831. But then Mormon leaders are as quiet as possible about it for 21 more years. Then they go public in 1852, but by 1890, are putting the breaks on it publicly. But for the next 20 years, they solemnize hundreds of additional plural marriages -- even tho they've told the public something else.
Joseph Smith teaches there is less than 3 gods in the 1830s...and by 1844, he says multiple gods exist. Seems to me it's the mark of a Mormon leader to keep changing his mind on things.
Besides, the issue isn't simply that we believe Romney would take all of the initiative to ensure Mormonism was promoted. It's more that Salt Lake City might be tempted to at times treat him like a puppet.
And on what basis, do I exert that claim? (Read below)
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) | |
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney? Ya hear that Jon Huntsman?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt? Still listening, Jon?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt? What say ye Jon?) | |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] |
His shifts on issues have nothing to do with being a Mormon. You are clearly against Mormonism. Every candidate’s religion could affect how they govern.
So you're announcing to the world that "faith" -- where it's in a trustworthy target or is misplaced -- it all doesn't matter to how it impacts your life, public or otherwise?
You're telling us that when past presidents & world leaders pray to their god for guidance, it doesn't matter which god they pray to; it all will come out the way it would have anyway minus prayer --or, who cares what god or how many gods they pray to? It'll all wash out the same in the end, huh?
Or are you trying to convey that being a POTUS is just a 100% administrative desk job? That there's not the exercise of discernment? [What? Gullibility in the most important area of a person's life says supposedly zilcho about vulnerability to being duped elsewhere?]
How do you know that?
The word "godliness" = to be like the god you worship.
The Mormon god was against blacks being members of their priesthood & against giving them access throughout May, 1978. Then before mid-June comes along, the Mormon god changed his mind on yet another social issue.
Hmm...seems Romney is "like" his god.
I mean that his religion won’t interfere with his job just because he’s a Mormon. It is constitutional to have different faiths for our presidents, and it’s debatable if Mormons are Christians. We don’t even know how religious Romney is. He was a governor, and didn’t govern as a Mormon.
So he threw his Mormon god out the door and 100% hermetically sealed his faith as gov? Why would the American people want somebody who isn't genuine if his "faith" is so dispensable & expendable?
And can you promise us that if he was POTUS & another 9/11 event hit, that he wouldn't be leading the nation in prayers to a Mormon god who wasn't God from eternity past...but was a man who rose up threw the ranks and got the god job?
Why would the nation want to pray to a god like that?
I meant that being Mormon didn’t interfere with him being governor, he didn’t have allegiance to his religion over being gov. A president doesn’t have to guarantee who he prays to. We do not have a state run religion.
Exactly. And we shouldn't be teaching -- even by example -- the nation's children that if...
...a presidential crisis on the magnitude of what occurred in the TV show "24" re: the types of crisis the POTUS in that show had to deal with --
...that our children would learn that it's "OK" for the nation to appeal to the Mormon god as led by a Mormon in the White House...somebody who worships a low totem-pole god in the overall ranks of the gods...
...and that they as children, when they grow up, can get to not only be a POTUS like a Romney...but a would-be "god" like a Romney.
You see, Romney's "highest" aspiration isn't the White House. It's the White Throne as a fellow god.
Sorry, I don't vote for Democratic self-proclaimed socialist 'Messiahs' and I don't vote for GOP self-proclaimed "gods in embryo" who think they, too, will join the full-grown-up god ranks.
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