(Live Thread) Republican Presidential Debate #8 Oct. 18, 2011 Nevada 8 P.M. EDT CNN

Tuesday, October 18, 2011 | Kristinn/ newzjunkey

[kristinn]

Broadcast on: CNN

Broadcast time: 8pm EDT/5pm PDT

The Candidates:

Michele Bachmann

Bachmann is serving her 3rd full term in the U.S. House. Founder of the House Tea Party Caucus, worked as a tax attorney, and was a foster mother for 23 teenagers. She is a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

Herman Cain

Cain is the former chief executive of Godfather's Pizza and former chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. He lost the Georgia Republican primary for a U.S. Senate seat in 2004. He was recently the host of Atlanta-based radio show.

Newt Gingrich

Gingrich served as Speaker of the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. He represented Georgia's 6th congressional district as a Republican member from 1979 to 1999. He has a PhD in modern European history.

Ron Paul

Paul is serving his 11th full term in the U.S. House. He’s an ob-gyn and was Libertarian nominee for president in 1988. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination for president in 2008

Rick Perry

Perry is the three term governor of Texas, from 2000 to current. He is a retired Air Force captain for former farmer. He has a degree in animal science.

Mitt Romney

Romney was governor of Massachusetts (2003 to 2007) and former CEO of Bain Capital, a private equity investment firm. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican 2008 nomination for president. He has an MBA (Harvard) and JD (Harvard Law).

Rick Santorum

Santorum served two terms in the U.S. House and two terms in the U.S. Senate. He became the Senate's third-ranking Republican in 2001. He was defeated for reelection in 2006.

[SZonian]

Really?

So in exposing the doctrines of mormonism, that are non-Christian and un-Biblical in an attempt to refute the mormon persistence in claiming the mantle of Christianity is to be against an individual?

I am against my wife and son because they’re mormon and I disagree with mormonism? My co-workers and friends?

Your argument is lost on me.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

And was slandered and mocked by the Presstitute and Saturday Night Live Scum that wouldn't lift a finger to serve in the defense of America.

Couldn't agree with you more . . . it absolutely broke my heart to see Admiral Stockdale be made a laughing stock by popular culture. Not only was the man a war hero, he was a true modern day philosopher; a warrior-academic. He once gave a Forrestal Lecture at USNA, which mids are typically loathe to attend, and got a standing ovation that lasted a full five minutes. Not one mid fell asleep, which was astounding. Then, afterwards, you'd see him shopping around the Mid Store like he was just another alum.

One of the greatest men this country ever produced . . .

[Eagle of Liberty]

This is all good stuff. But what CAN'T happen is the creation of a sales tax BEFORE the 16th Amendment is repealed. A sales tax on top of a VERY-HARD-to-repeal Constitutionally-protected income tax and IRS would be disastrous.

But how do you get the 16th repealed without something else in place as well? How would you raise revenue? How would this be communicated to the masses? My vote would have been for Herman to just run on the Fair Tax which contains verbage on both the formation of the NST and repeal of the 16th. It seems to me whatever system we move to, there would have to be a year overlap.

[Eagle of Liberty]

I said the people who have shouldered the burden of paying taxes would get taxed again when they retire as they spend their savings.

I am not seeing the difference in this line of argument. Under the current tax system, you will pay the embedded taxes on goods with your saved money. Under the 9-9-9, you will pay the 9% sales tax with your saved money. What is the difference. And quite frankly, this was the same line of argument with personal savings accounts during the SS reform discussion.

I realize that the older generation may in fact get screwed under many of the large reform plans being discussed, but what are the alternatives? Our status quo programs cause every new generation to get royally screwed. And to add to that, I will have paid into a SS system for decades and may never see one dime. Where is the justice in that?

[wintertime]

I’m against everything the mormon church stands for, not the people.

...is to be against an individual?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, really....A person **is** what they believe, work for, strive for, defend, study, and promote. That **is** ( at the core) what people are. It's the very essence of their being, personality, and personhood. People are not dolls with belief chips. What? You like the doll but not the belief chip? Huh?

Two personal examples to illustrate my point:

For instance....I will not have a Democrat for a friend. The 2000 election re-count proved to me that Democrats were not people of good will. They were either too stupid or too evil to be a friend.

I will not have a teacher from our government socialist schools for a friend either. Anyone who would teach children to think and reason godlessly in our godless government schools, or help in any way to make children accepting of socialism by attending socialist schools, is too evil or too stupid to be a friend. That a person would willingly seek out a job that would teach children godlessness and socialism is such a flaming personality characteristic that it is a deal killer for me.

These are just two examples from my personal life.

[PapaNew]

The bill should include massive tax cuts (needed most) and even more massive spending cuts (needed very badly).

Implementation of the bill:

- Lowers income taxes to the proposed 9-10% levels.

- Massive spending cuts. Easiest: The bill should contain the results of something like what what Reagan did: hire top business minds to study the proliferation of government waste and submit the waste-cutting proposal in the bill. Harder: Cut redundant bureaucracies and the worst of the entitlements. One of the hardest: Stop the automatic pay increases and and automatic increases in government spending. Reagan couldn't defeat this but he did a lot - it's left to Cain or others to continue the drive against big government.

Meantime, work on repealing the income tax amendment and REPEAL OBAMACARE.

[PapaNew]

BTW, repealing the 16th amendment would be by passing another amendment, of course, and that amendment would allow for the gradual abolishment of the income tax and allow Congress to put something else in its place (in this case a sales tax).

[itssme]

“Senior citizens don’t pay any taxes now. They won’t under 999.”

---

When has Cain made any such statement to the effect that senior citizens will not pay taxes under the 9-9-9? Cain’s explanation of his 9-9-9 tax plan on his website makes no mention of what you have stated.

Proof, please.

[Eagle of Liberty]

Under Cains plan it will happen to the tune of an ADDITIONAL 9%

This 9% sales tax cannot be separated from the whole plan. Under the plan, certain taxes that companies currently pay will be removed. Other taxes will be reduced. These tax changes will affect the entire chain of product production. Prices WILL go down. It will only take a few brave entrepreneurs who see these price-dropping opportunities and take advantage of them in order to gain market share. And for most non-retired Americans, the total tax burden will go down.

[caww]

Surprisingly you missed the point of my posts Glock.

Let me say again, this isn’t about a religion, most don’t really care what religion one chooses to practice. But it is about ANY ‘organization’ with political motives and purposes who groom a candidate to carry out their political agenda via a Presidential run,.. and those he brings with him to that office, who’s allegiance is to their “party” (organization)...and using that organization as a religious front to shield it’s intentions, which are national and global.

Romney plays the same tunes Obama does, lies, denial and a host of other dodges, and he’s been well coached on not only how to answer any questions concerning his “religion”....which will always be presented as a “freedom” and neutral to the hearers, but how to manipulate those hearers to carry their water for them. Unfortunately, as with Obamas run...few want to listen to what and who has created Romney’s “mindset” and it will be too late if he wins the Pres....just as it’s played out with Obama.... To the uniformed it is working.

Romney will continue to do as he is dictated to by those in power within the LDS...as in the past, now and will be in the future.... He has no choice but to do so.

[flaglady47]

“I don’t believe you. I have seen your posts for years and I know better. Ever hear of conversion to the LDS?”

That’s your problem lady. I know very little about Mormons other than what I read and the ones I have personally known who have always been lovely people. And I leave them and their religion alone, unlike you with your fixation. You said you once were one. I would have been nice to you when you were a Mormon too. Now that you aren’t, it appears you’ve changed more than your religion. Your attitude changed along with it. I think you were probably a better person when you were a Mormon.

Oh, and by the way, I have a couple of relatives as well as friends that are Freepers and who read these Freeper threads also. How much you want to bet that they know what my religious background is. Oh, I know, you would probably say they are all liars too. Now please stop your tag team routine with your cohort, as I have nothing else to say to either of you. Dealing with you is not a pleasant experience, not only to me but most likely to others who have had similar experiences with you. If you comment to me further on this or any other thread, I will not respond. You will be having a one sided conversation.

[caww]

Might be so riri....and I agree Bush rose after 9/11 and I have no doubt he was the man for the hour. That happening defined his administration. Plus Bush had a powerhouse of men and woman in his administration...which moved people to support him who might not have otherwise.

I don’t know how much he wanted the Presidency to begin with...but Perry’s not being prepared at the last debate...certainly would attest he wasn’t much interested in “interviewing” for the job before the American people.

I hust think Perry and Cain are being used to keep Romney off his course...and it might just work...though my prefereance currently is for Newt.

[Eagle of Liberty]

“Senior citizens don’t pay any taxes now. They won’t under 999.”

This is not true and Cain has not said this. Senior citizens pay sales taxes and they also may have to pay taxes on what they get with SS. Now how about that! Senior Citizens may have to pay taxes on their SS distributions if they go out and earn extra income after declaring retirement. Now THAT is a huge slap in the face. How about we just have a cutoff that after you declare retirement, you pay ZERO taxes, period.

Taxable Portion of Social Security

Social Security benefits may be non-taxable or partially taxable, depending on your total income from other sources. Use the "Social Security Benefits Worksheet" in the Instructions for Form 1040 (PDF), page 26, to calculate your taxable amount.

Social Security is Only Source of Income

"If the only income you received during the tax year was your social security or equivalent railroad retirement benefits, your benefits are probably not taxable and you probably will not have to file a tax return," according to the IRS, Tax Topics 423.

Taxable Social Security

Social Security benefits are taxed depending on your total income from all sources. Here's how to calculate how much of your Social Security benefits is taxable.

Provisional Income

Provisional income is your total worldwide income, including tax-exempt income, plus half of your Social Security benefits.

Base Amounts

The following base amounts are used in figuring your taxable Social Security:

Filing Status-------------------Base------Additional
Single---------------------------$25,000---$34,000
Head of Household----------$25,000---$34,000
Married Filing Jointly-------$32,000---$44,000
Married Filing Separately--$0*
Qualifying Widow(er)-------$25,000---$34,000

[Darnright]

>The biggest problem with the sales tax is the constitutionally-protected income tax. Until the 16th Amendment is repealed, the sales tax will be and ADDITIONAL TAX not a replacement tax. The 16th Amendment must be first repealed before a sales tax is created. <

Exactly. Hasn’t Cain repeatedly stated the first thing that would have to happen, before a “999” plan could be put in place, would be for the 16th Amendment to be scrapped?

[ejonesie22]

So you support Mitt on his policies then, not because of you both being LDS...

Well that really doesn't help you does it...

In fact it makes it a tick worse, cause you are supporting a lying weasel of a RINO...

And you want to be seen as Conservative?

LOL

[Eagle of Liberty]

Sorry, post 2193 should have been pinged to you.

[PapaNew]

I haven't seen that in his proposal.

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

[ejonesie22]

Cool, she went stunt Mormon...

[sand lake bar]

Flaglady, you rock!

[Tennessee Nana]

Senior citizens pay sales taxes and they also may have to pay taxes on what they get with SS.
____________________________________________

I dont think I said they didnt pay sales tax

In TN we pay 10$ sales tax on everything including food

But the poor have food stamps...

I dont think Herman Cain was going to do away with food stamps..

Also seniors dont pay taxes on their SS...

At least I dont..

Am I suppose to ???

I have no objection to a sales tax

Thats fair...

If you have the money to buy a yacht or plane or big house pay taxes on it..

Seniors wont have such a high cost item though so their taxes will be less...