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Free speech vs. lying? Supreme Court to rule on Stolen Valor Act
LA Times ^
| October 17, 2011
| David D. Savage
Posted on 10/17/2011 9:58:43 AM PDT by jazusamo
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To: SeaHawkFan
Good point and you’re correct, how times have changed.
21
posted on
10/17/2011 10:37:24 AM PDT
by
jazusamo
(The real minimum wage is zero: Thomas Sowell)
To: Old Teufel Hunden
What ever happened to Impersonation?
To: Old Teufel Hunden
WE should certainly punish merchants who peddle old tuna as fresh Atlantic Sea Bass.
23
posted on
10/17/2011 10:37:50 AM PDT
by
muawiyah
To: Ratman83
I’m afraid I don’t recall.............
24
posted on
10/17/2011 10:38:19 AM PDT
by
Red Badger
(Furthermore, I think Obama must be impeached....................)
To: SoldierDad
If you give them enough liberty to lie about past accomplishments they could even get elected POTUS! Isn’t that a wild thought?
Naaaah! THAT could NEVER happen, could it?
25
posted on
10/17/2011 10:38:56 AM PDT
by
Tucker39
To: muawiyah
You may be missing my point. I agree with you, but it is the height of hypocrisy for politicians to legislate against behavior they happily participate in during the normal course of their occupation merely for the purposes of personal enrichment.
26
posted on
10/17/2011 10:41:02 AM PDT
by
stormer
To: Brookhaven
I don’t care if it DOES taste great! If it goes on SMOTHER, I ain’t eatin’ it!
27
posted on
10/17/2011 10:41:33 AM PDT
by
Tucker39
To: muawiyah
They did here. A big local seafood place was selling Vietnam farm raised fish as expensive grouper and such. They got busted big time.
28
posted on
10/17/2011 10:41:49 AM PDT
by
Red Badger
(Furthermore, I think Obama must be impeached....................)
To: SoldierDad
"The Framers of the Constitution would disagree that protecting lies falls under a constitutional right."
And you can point to what founder's writings to back up your assertion? I agree that they would not want to protect lies that have the intent to defraud someone or lie to benefit monetarily. However, show me where the Founders would say that lying to impress someone should be outlawed. That's all he did. As someone who is a retired Marine who has been in combat, I think it's despicable someone would lie about that. But I don't think it's criminal.
I've met CMH and Navy Cross recipients. I'm in awe of them and have the highest honor and respect for them. The greatest thing about this country is you have the freedom to be an idiot. That's why I revel in the fact that we allow occupy wall street to go on in this country. There are many countries that would send in the military to crack skulls. Not here. I have faith in the majority of the American people that they can see these dufuses for who and what they are. Just like Alvarez. He was found out and put to shame for his actions. Have more faith in your fellow American. There are plenty of us veterans out here to still uncover these frauds.
To: jazusamo
This could get interesting. If you deliberately lie in court, to Congress, or to the FBI, you can be charged with a crime.
But, if you lie to your neighbor about your military service, the “government can’t police that”.
Military (or warrior) status has long been held to be honorable service and deliberately lying to gain esteem and admiration diminishes the service of those who have actually served their nation.
IMO, the Founding Fathers never intended the 1st Amendment to cover lying because people were expected to be more honest and more honorable in those days. This is another measure of how far we, as a nation, have fallen into the sewer that this is even going before the highest court in the land. The answer should be obvious to anyone but the liars!!
30
posted on
10/17/2011 10:45:03 AM PDT
by
DustyMoment
(Congress - Another name for white collar criminals!!)
To: SeaHawkFan
Until sometime around the 1950s the State of Delaware had the public whipping post. I can think of several candidates for THAT, if only the Federal courts had one!
31
posted on
10/17/2011 10:45:16 AM PDT
by
Tucker39
To: Red Badger
Yup if he had said that he would be ok. Just ask Bill and Hillary
32
posted on
10/17/2011 10:45:40 AM PDT
by
Ratman83
To: muawiyah
"WE should certainly punish merchants who peddle old tuna as fresh Atlantic Sea Bass."
Very funny. but that example is different from this case. Those merchants are defrauding the customer for their own monetary gain. We have truth in advertising laws on the books already.
To: jazusamo
The Highest Award(in MY opinion) that I recieved was my 3rd US Navy Good Conduct(12 years)(ONLY Enlisted get it/sorry “Officers”), that enabled me to wear GOLD!
34
posted on
10/17/2011 10:48:07 AM PDT
by
US Navy Vet
(Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
To: Old Teufel Hunden
Besides the Constitution itself, try reading the Federalist Papers for a better understanding of what the Framer’s intents were. Also, take a moment to reflect upon what the Colonies were facing at the time the Constitution was written, and the extremely dim view given to people who lied in those days. Trying to apply the Constitution to cover any and every word spoken (or written) in order to “grant” rights which were never intended is wrong headed, and is a huge part of the problems this nation faces today.
35
posted on
10/17/2011 10:48:23 AM PDT
by
SoldierDad
(Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
To: Little Bill
"What ever happened to Impersonation?"
You can't do it if it's shown that you have benefitted from it in some way. Where did Alvarez benefit? If it's a crime to impersonate, then all the kids during Halloween dressed up as soldiers and all actors in war movies would be subject to prosecution, right? Where does it end. If Alverez got his city water job because he claimed to be a CMH recipient or even a vet I would agree. He deserved to be prosecuted.
To: stormer
Here's a problem for you ~ hypocrisy is almost always little more than something seen only by the observer.
That doesn't stop folks from continuing to imagine that it is important. Moslems believe Mohammad ordered them to "kill the hypocrites".
What that means is that the burden of proof is on you to describe in infinite detail why it is there is any hypocrisy in passing laws regarding behavior, and how that applies here.
BTW, I argued from the Constitution. I see little to be gained by providing greater protection to "Who Let The Dogs Out woof woof" than to the awarding of medals and awards to our military personnel.
37
posted on
10/17/2011 10:49:38 AM PDT
by
muawiyah
To: Old Teufel Hunden
The greatest thing about this country is you have the freedom to be an idiot. Here is where we really disagree. The "freedom to be an idiot" is not a great thing, and is hardly worth aspiring to. The fact that we tolerate mediocrity by "using" the First Amendment to protect that which the Constitution was NEVER intended to protect is a huge failing, not a great thing.
38
posted on
10/17/2011 10:52:23 AM PDT
by
SoldierDad
(Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
To: Old Teufel Hunden
The applicable laws should be "fraud", not "truth in advertising".
There's little public purpose served by segregating out commercial speech. There's enormous public purpose served by punishing people for commiting fraud.
39
posted on
10/17/2011 10:52:34 AM PDT
by
muawiyah
To: DustyMoment
Agreed. Especially regarding upholding military service as honorable, liars should not be able to gain monetarily or gain esteem by falsely embellishing their service.
40
posted on
10/17/2011 10:53:57 AM PDT
by
jazusamo
(The real minimum wage is zero: Thomas Sowell)
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