[Cincinatus' Wife]

Just wait 'till you read what the writer's solution is.

[Sudetenland]

Wow! What a crappy idea. I don't see a "carbon tax" as being any less "regressive" than a sales tax. And all of those elderly folks who live on fixed incomes and, because of their age, pay lower overall tax rates would be hit very hard by this or any of those "regressive" tax proposals.

So the question then becomes, will there be special set asides for those who live on fixed incomes, or do we simply penalize all of those folks? If there are special provisions for some people, then how does this end up being any different or better than the morass of little special laws we already have? An exception for this group, a set-aside for that group, a carve out for another interest, BAM! we're right back where we began . . . only this time we have added a new stream of revenue for government to tap.

As I have said several times since Cain made his 9-9-9 proposal and even before with the "Fair Tax" movement--no Congress can, with any law they pass, constrain the actions of any future Congress. I don't care what sort of "protections" you put on any of these new revenue sources to prevent them from gradual inflation, they evaporate with the swearing in of the very next Congress--if they are not simply later ignored by the very same Congress.

Only a fool would trust Congress to restrain their natural urges to spend ever greater amounts of money and if you are waiting for the people to react and stop congressional action, just remember that the voters have very short memories and a very high threshold of pain before they become willing to react--and act.

[fightinJAG]

What’s your substantive problem with the writer’s proposal?

[McGavin999]

Good grief, it’s already becoming a tool for the liberals!!!

[Scotsman will be Free]

Raise the cost of electricity and fuel and EVERYTHING goes up. What an idiot.

[kenmcg]

Many states already pay an 8-9% sales tax. Adding on another 9% won’t stand. The economy needs cuts (not in medicaire or SS). Cut out the czars, the education department, the FDA, the Dept. of the Interior, foreign aid etc.
The gov’t is moving to allow foodstamps be approved for restaurant use. “Poor” people get free head start, while a mid-class family pays from 14-17K per child in child care. The free meals for kids has to be looked at. Many of these kids get two meals a day, while there obese parents (already on welfare) do nothing to care for the welfare of their own childen. Not to mention the billions of grants to bankrupt companies, just to get kickbacks to the RATS.

[Jeff Head]

Cain has indicated that a provision of the plan, required for its passing is that it would take a 2/3rds vote of congress to raise any of the rates.

We do not have that now.

While it is true a new sales tax is added federally, Cain takes away two taxes while doing so. No more inheritance tax, and no more capital gains tax.

As to the arguement that government can simply grow the tax...two things. Government can grow the current tax, and it is much higher, 2nd, as stated, it would require a 2/3rds vote to do so.

Finally, Cain has also indicated that the sales tax is only on "new" items. Used item sales would be exempt.

IMHO, Herman Cain has the right attitude and message for renewal and restoration of America, her strength, her economy, and much, much closer adherance to and reverence for her constitution.

With the endorsement yesterday of Art Laffer, for Cain's 9-9-9 plan (Laffer is recognized as one of the brain child's of supply side economics), his momentum continues to rise.

HERMAN CAIN IN 2012 FOR A STRONGER AND RESTORED AMERICA

[SoJoCo]

Cain's plan would fold in the 15 percent payroll tax so the new 9 percent rate would be an improvement...

A bogus claim right off the bat. The overwhelming majority of people in this country are not self-employed so they don't pay a 15 percent payroll tax. They pay, currently, 5.56 percent so right off the bat Cain's plan is an increase for the majority of people in the country.

...- but would end the immunity that the bottom half has from paying any taxes at all.

Would someone please tell me why those currently paying little or no income tax would welcome a plan that will hike their tax bill dramatically?

[Erik Latranyi]

NONSENSE!!!!!

Listen to yourselves! You are quibbling over details!

What POTUS gets EXACTLY what they propose?! None. Everything gets changed as it goes through our legislative process.

The FOUNDATION is to broaden the tax base (get everybody to pay something) and to make it transparent.

If you can’t support that, you are not a conservative.

[bbernard]

“Even if Republicans score a resounding victory in 2012, they’re not going to have a filibuster-proof Senate majority.”

Another pundit that has a crystal ball..... Too funny

[bamahead]

Every criticism of 9-9-9 that I read steps around or blatantly AVOIDS the reality of EMBEDDED taxes in every good/service in the so called ‘free’ market. If the business cost of producing goods/service is reduced to 9%, then the ‘levelizing’ force of embedded tax GOES AWAY. Allowing businesses once again to COMPETE by becoming agile, efficient, and streamlined and setting their PRICES accordingly.

The COST OF LIVING will DROP folks. The 9% sales tax will merely level that out. Any other criticism that AVOIDS the embedded tax portion of the arguement is DISHONEST.

[numberonepal]

I wonder what the revenues would be if 9-9-9 were like so:

9% Corporate tax
9% Personal income tax
9% Tariff on every imported item

OR

9% Corporate tax
9% Personal income tax
$.009 on every digital financial transaction

[Responsibility2nd]

You’re right. This article attacking the 999 plan and endorsing Cap & Trade was laughable. Something else the author says makes me laugh....

“So a national sales tax is a non-starter. The whole thing is just too complicated and hard to enforce.”

What a marroon. If some local yokel in Podunk City can collect and enforce sales taxes, then why not the US government? Too complicated? Has this moron ever read the IRS Tax Code?

All 71,000 pages of it?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_pages_are_in_the_IRS_tax_code

[Sequoyah101]

Yup, the writer is an IDIOT. 130% increases in electric rates are not regressive?

I see no problem in collecting a national sales tax. Fuel taxes are collected at the pump, an essentially flat tax should free up a lot of IRS employees who should become unemployed with a flat tax. Most states collect sales taxes now an additional 9% of the same terms seems pretty easy. Standardize the items sales tax is paid on between the states... what is done now in some state is just foolish anyway. Most states don’t tax essential foods now. Carry on with that.

As for creep in the tax rates... cap the Federal spending as a % of GDP... about 17.5% or so sounds like a good number to me. I think that works out. It sure isn’t the 21 to 25% we have and are heading for.

[Marie]

His solution is hilarious!!

Well, done and point made. :)

[FourPeas]

While the 9% national sales tax is a baaaaad idea, the author’s solution is far worse. Since any tax levied on businesses will be passed down to consumers, consumer prices will inevitably rise. It will also pick winners & losers, giving government preferences to “low carbon” industries. Nope. Not a good idea.

[fightinJAG]

Good thread! I have to be offline now, but will be back to see what’s happening here later.

[CynicalBear]

If Laffer gave it the thumbs up that’s good enough for me.

[fightinJAG]

As for the argument that a NST would hit “the poor” and those on fixed incomes the hardest:

By this reasoning, state and local sales taxes already hit “the poor” and those on fixed incomes the hardest. What is different about how a NST would operate?

Where I live “the poor” are said to also be hit harder by a variety of other taxes, such as we have a special tax (and it’s high) on food ordered at a drive-thru. Yes, you pay more tax on your burger if you get it in your car. We also have special taxes on junk food and soda, etc.

The fact is that when you’re “poor” and on a fixed incomes ALL price increases affect you perhaps more than someone with more money.

Plus there are ways to address that (that conservatives have been pushing for decades).

[Atlas Sneezed]

So...

Flaglady is a Romney supporter, and still smitten with Bush, party insider.

Beagle8U and SoJoCo (August newbie) are Perry supporters, and 90% of their posts are on Cain threads.

And their intellectual capacity on economic matters is evidenced in their posts.

I suspect they’re all women.

[hobbes1]

I hate to drop the turd in the punchbowl, but lets get realistic here.

I want to make a comparison.

Obama, Gives a zillion speeches, exhorts the House (not Congress, or the senate) to pass his plan, the CBO says ‘We don’t score speeches’

Collective Media....Ho Hum.

Cain, Comes out with 9-9-9, meant to descrive his POLICY for the overhaul of the tax system, people like it, media freaks out and demand details down to the legislative enactment level.

It would be amusing if it weren’t so sad.

I expect it from the Libs, but the MS Cons. press should know better.