Posted on 10/12/2011 7:04:06 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Via Breitbart TV, the soundbite of the day from tonight’s debate. Is she right? According to Josh Barro (via our pal Karl), maybe so:
Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan includes a personal income tax, a business tax, and a sales tax, all at flat rates of nine percent. Bruce Bartlett critiques the plan in the New York Times today, and he flags a fact about the business tax that I hadn’t been aware of:
“The business tax in the Cain plan bears no resemblance to the present corporate income tax. The tax would apply to gross sales less dividends paid and all purchases from other companies, including investment goods. Thus, there would be no deduction for wages.”
This is far more similar to a value-added tax than to a corporate income tax. And indeed, the description on Cain’s website matches Bartlett’s, saying the business tax would apply to “Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.” One question is what Cain means by “gross income,” but I think he has to mean something like gross revenue–anything that looks like a profits concept would already exclude “purchases from other businesses” and so they would not be there to deduct.
In other words, in effect he’s proposing both a sales tax and a de facto VAT that’ll operate as a second sales tax on top of it. I’m not sure Bachmann realizes that or else she would have nailed him on it right here. Bad enough that Congress gets to play with one new “invisible” tax on consumers, but two?
the legal eagles/economists will hafta run the numbers a gillion different ways to get a gillion different answers, but bottom line, if ya dont control CONgress, even the best policy will be sh!t in short order...
the devil is truly in the details, as is a lack of principle in a leader...the President can only push ideas, but if he lascks charachter, its all moot...
I wanna see Mr Cain keep hammerin the need to Represent the long term health of fiscal responsibility, and that will necessarily require honestly stating his purpose, and not waivering or pandering...
if he simply states his 'plan' and his capacity to stand for the underlying principles, he wins in my book...
You mean like a 2/3 majority of Congress to change it?
Which is an utterly irrational complaint to make about 9-9-9.
There is nothing that stops the current tax rates from being hiked by Congress. The notion that 9-9-9 gives Congress MORE power, as Tax Lawyer Bachaman claimed, is completely divorced from reality. Congress has that power now, there is nothing in 9-9-9 that gives them any more power then they currently have now.
9-9-9 actually makes it much harder to raise taxes. Since everyone pays, everyone knows any tax hike will be paid by them personally.
9-9-9 eliminates ALL the current loopholes Congress currently has in the Tax Code to favor this or that group. It also eliminates any ability to pass off goverment spending as someone else paying for what you are getting. Since everyone pays, everyone knows they will pay more to "get stuff" from the Government.
So find a new attack line cause that one is completely baseless
Nice try but again, utter nonsense.
In 9-9-9 the reform and the taxes happen in the same bill. There is no "taxes now, changes later" as you claim under 9-9-9 as you claim. They both happen simultaneously.
How about if he tells you you have no heart if you dont want your tax money used to send illegals to college? Does that work?
Yes. Point of Sale only. Like the Fair Tax. It is NOT a VAT.
Also -
Any supplies and equipment bought in the USA to make your product are not taxed.
It is NOT a NEW TAX.....
IT REPLACES ALL FEDERAL TAXES!!!!
WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?????
Furthermore, Politicians have to have a 2/3 majority to RAISE TAXES like you suggested. It’s not a 51% requirement like in the current communist, progressive tax code. It’s way easier now for Democrats to raise taxes under the current tax code than under Cain’s 9,9,9 plan.
Finally, even if they do manage to raise taxes. It will raise taxes on ALL classes vs. the game politicians are playing right now of we are just going to raise taxes on the rich. I’m telling you it is WAY HARDER TO RAISE TAXES UNDER 999 COMPARED TO THE CURRENT TAX CODE.
Cain turned himself into the 999 plan, and once people crunch their own numbers ( how it effects them) it will crash and burn and Cain with it.
Point of Sale. Bartlett, who was the one claiming it was "like a VAT" in his statement demolished the the very VAT myth he was pushing in his own quote.
A VAT taxes every point of sale, 9-9-9 taxes only the final point of sale
From the article;
“The business tax in the Cain plan bears no resemblance to the present corporate income tax. The tax would apply to gross sales less dividends paid and all purchases from other companies, including investment goods.
well then, kudos for his unwaivering stand, and dont hold yer breath waiting for me to vote for ya ???
999 plan is truly a joke. But what is more troubling is he is in the tank for Romney. Said he would attack him...didn’t dare attack Romney. Cain is a Romney man. That is a glaring fact.
Try actually watching the debate not living in your little Perrybot bubble world. Your accusation is not only false, it is stupidly false.
BINGO AND THANKS MNJohnnie!!!!
I wrote more/less the same thing in post 90.
The argument that it’s easier for congress to raise taxes is complete RUBBISH! It’s WAY EASIER under the current tax code.
The best part is that NO OTHER CANDIDATE has a tax plan right now other than Cain. THAT alone should tell you everything you need to know about the candidates. Cain is the clear leader.
RE: and Perry is a little to muslim friendly for me.
I gather you’re not bothered by Cain’s remark that he won’t appoint a Muslim in his administration unless he can show absolute loyalty to the constitution and not his religion? ( How’s he going to ensure this in practice, and how’s that going to pass the ‘no religious test’ clause of Article VI, paragraph 3 of our constitution?).
There is nothing that stops the current tax rates from being hiked by Congress. The notion that 9-9-9 gives Congress MORE power, as Tax Lawyer Bachaman claimed, is completely divorced from reality. Congress has that power now, there is nothing in 9-9-9 that gives them any more power then they currently have now.
9-9-9 actually makes it much harder to raise taxes. Since everyone pays, everyone knows any tax hike will be paid by them personally.
9-9-9 eliminates ALL the current loopholes Congress currently has in the Tax Code to favor this or that group. It also eliminates any ability to pass off goverment spending as someone else paying for what you are getting. Since everyone pays, everyone knows they will pay more to "get stuff" from the Government.
So find a new attack line Perrybots cause that one is completely baseless
I agree. Bachmann and Santorum did a good job explaining why it won’t work.
You are all ready paying WAY more then 18%. 9-9-9 REDUCES your tax burden by elimination all current Federal taxes and replacing them with the 9-9-9 plan.
Your taxes go DOWN, not up, under 9-9-9.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.