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To: blaquebyrd

If Mitt had also been the one to complain about Perry’s seeming ease around a hunting ground officially named for a flower that was in turn named for a racial slur, then he would deserve all the catcalls of “hypocrite” that could be mustered. But of all Mitt’s faults in the last 25 years or so, racism seems to be absent. If anything, voices like his were probably the reason the LDS officially abandoned racism.

How many mainstream evangelical Christians of good conscience go to Southern Baptist churches, who for the virtues of their general theology bought into the “Ham-is-cursed” nonsense about Negroes, thought slavery had been an OK means of evangelism, and didn’t formally disavow that until recently?

I mean, I disagree quite a lot with LDS and think their theology weirds out America for good reason. But racism isn’t in their book of faults any more, neither is it Mitt’s.


33 posted on 10/09/2011 11:34:06 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"But racism isn’t in their book of faults any more, neither is it Mitt’s"

It was prior to 1978 and Mitt was an adult who worshipped that racist doctrine. Just as conservatives asked why Obama sat in Jeremiah Wright's racist church, Mitts should explaind why he worshipped in a racist church.

50 posted on 10/09/2011 11:46:47 AM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: HiTech RedNeck; blaquebyrd
...the LDS officially abandoned racism.

They did? What did they then do with all of those Book of Mormon passages (and one Lds "scriptural" verse from Doctrine & Covenants) that still teach racism? Scrub them white? Delete them? Recycled them?

I mean, I disagree quite a lot with LDS and think their theology weirds out America for good reason. But racism isn’t in their book of faults any more, neither is it Mitt’s.

Wow! I just didn't know that the Mormon authorities took a pair of scissors & excised 2 Nephi 5:21; 3 Nephi 2:15; Alma 3:6; Jacob 3:5; D&C 134:12. That's news to me. It's also news to me that you're saying Mitt Romney militantly disagrees with his "scriptures."

How many mainstream evangelical Christians of good conscience go to Southern Baptist churches, who for the virtues of their general theology bought into the “Ham-is-cursed” nonsense about Negroes, thought slavery had been an OK means of evangelism, and didn’t formally disavow that until recently?

#1 which ones didn't disavow that until recently? (Or do you always just shoot from the hip with no real bullets?)
#2 HUGE DIFFERENCE: When Southern Baptists (For example) in the 19th century linked up with promoting/justifying slavery, they had to (a) inject their own added assumptions slapped onto what the Bible really says re: Ham; and (b) They simply uttered their own spin (opinions) to do so. IOW, the Bible itself doesn't embrace racism.

That can't be said with Mormon "scriptures." Their 1978 shift was a mere policy/polity change. It didn't delete much of the root basis of their racist 'tudes and policies: Their Mormon "scriptures."

Here's five Book of Mormon verses below talking about how the "skin of blackness" is a "cursing" based upon their "iniquity" (2 Nephi 5:21; Alma 3:6; Jacob 3:5) and how when the curse would be removed, they would again become "white" (3 Nephi 2:15), which the Book of Mormon says is a "delightsome" color (2 Nephi 5:21; cf. older version of 2 Nephi 30:6):

* "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them." (2 Nephi 5:21)

* "...many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people." (2 Nephi 30:6, pre-1981 versions...changed from unknown reasons in 1981 to "fair and delightsome")

* "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against the their brethren..." (Alma 3:6)

* "Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins..." (Jacob 3:5)

* "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites." (3 Nephi 2:15)

On the next post, I'll also highlight Mormon Doctrine & Covenants 134:12, also another racist Mormon sacred-book passage that hasn't been touched, revised, removed...

116 posted on 10/09/2011 5:33:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: HiTech RedNeck; blaquebyrd
...the LDS officially abandoned racism...I mean, I disagree quite a lot with LDS and think their theology weirds out America for good reason. But racism isn’t in their book of faults any more, neither is it Mitt’s.

Please look at Lds Doctrine Covenants 134:12. It is still on the "books" as official Mormon doctrine. It's not been rescinded. It's not been publicly critiqued by any known Lds General Authority I know.

Are you going to look at this and then try exporting your ignorance that racism isn't in their book of faults any more"???

A bit of background: It’s mid-1835. Smith is churning out new “Scripture.” Smith is taking aim at new converts. But in that time, did he believe the Mormon “gospel” to be aimed at slaves? (No, not unless express “permission” was granted by their “owners”).

Could you imagine a verse -- say a verse from the Bible -- still applicable today—one similar to the Mormon scripture of Doctrine & Covenants 134:12—which would tell you in effect that yes, the gospel was for women who are sexually trafficked--but only if their Pimp-owner says "Yes?".

I mean, imagine if you will, for a moment, that you are the God of the universe; God of every planet; God of the earth; Creator of every person. Imagine for a moment you are speaking forth universal eternal truth. And then imagine that someone claims you (as God) made the following “Scriptural” statement:

”We believe it just to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth, and warn the righteous to save themselves from the corruption of the world; but we do not believe it right to interfere with bond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters, nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life, thereby jeopardizing the lives of men; such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude.”

D&C 134:12 is LDS “Doctrine” that has never been removed or rescinded!!! This passages makes it quite clear – in contrast to the apostle Paul who vied for the religious freedom of Onesimus while treating him as a full Christian brother and encouraged Philemon to do the same--somehow, LDS think that "religious freedom" applies to everyone except slaves!

D&C 134:12, written in 1835 pro-slavery America, made it quite clear that instead of the Mormons having a universal god who issued eternal truth applicable to all cultures, he is instead an American-sounding god who speaks only in King James English & was beholden to the American slavery industry.

D&C 134:12 "settles" the issue for the Mormon: Are slaves & trafficking victims worthy of the "gospel?" LDS Answer? Nope! "neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them..." says LDS "Scripture.

And why not? Well, says D&C 134:12: We don't want ya ta meddle with the Mastuhs' business “property,” or to say it as precisely as LDS "scripture" says it: nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life...

(Nah. We can't have unhappy slaves or trafficking victims now, can we? Too disturbing to their "stations" of life, eh?)

Now what are the ultimate reasons for this again? D&C 134:12 provides the answer:

Reason #1: ...such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust... (There ya have it...wouldn't want to be "unjust" by giving slaves the gospel & baptizing them, would ya?)

Reason #2: ...and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude. (And, of course, the "closer": Wouldn't want to disturb the peace & quiet of slavery-sanctioning governments, now would ya?)

117 posted on 10/09/2011 5:39:55 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: HiTech RedNeck
But racism isn’t in their book of faults any more, neither is it Mitt’s.

It sure took GOD a long time to get their attention!!!





"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'



August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)





Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 



 

134 posted on 10/09/2011 8:58:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

(It’s taken quite a while to ‘paint over’ this rock that keeps troubling MORMONism, too.)


135 posted on 10/09/2011 8:59:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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