Why Gov. Rick Perry is Wrong about a Border Fence

Lodi News-Sentinel ^ | October 1, 2011 | Staff

[Polybius]

Regarding my Post 55:

My friend it’s useless to reply to the FR windbags here who have never been to Texas....frankly, they are dumbasses in the highest order talking about a fence. I don’t even reply because there are actually not that many...they just show up on very thread with the same nonsense. Most of them are Yankee’s who I would like to round up and march their ignorant azzes along the nearly 1400 miles from Brownsville to the Arizona border and see what they had to say about a fence then. Unfortunately you just can’t help stupid people and it seems that FR has bunches of them lately... .... RVN Airplane Driver

Yep. As I noted in my last post, even the Israelis did not build a Fence in the middle of the Negev Desert.

However, in the current dumbing down of America, it seems that Presidents are being chosen in these so-called "Debates" that are nothing but "The 30 Second Sound Bite Game". It is in that silly game that the Fence has become the only way to skin a cat.

Maybe the Texas FReepers can stress how, in Texas, putting the entire Rio Grande riverfront on Mexico’s side of a Fence is a huge private property rights issue. Far too many conservative are thinking with their knee-jerk reflex.

[af_vet_rr]

It just occurred to me, why Perry takes his position on immigration that he does. He was Texas Agriculture Commissioner. He's a rancher/farmer.

He wants illegals in Texas for the agriculture industry as cheap labor.

While that's an interesting take on it, and one that has been discussed in the past and bears repeating, Rick Perry's biggest donor is a homebuilder. Another billionaire that has backed Perry is a Democrat grocer. Anytime something smells fishy with Perry, look at his donors or look and see if any of his friends are involved.

[Polybius]

but Perry didn’t RUN for governor, it was handed to him when Bush-43 became president. Since then he has NEVER been challenged from the right. Conservatives here in Texas have spend a DECADE having to hold our nose when we vote for governor (something I literally did the last time I voted)..... BobL

People outside of Texas do not understand this. Perry had no Republican competition in 2002. In 2006, his biggest Republican rival was a secessionist who didn't even break double digits. .... af_vet_rr

Granted that Perry is not as conservatives as you guys might want him to be but you do realize that the current conservative darling, Cain, was a Romney fan in 2008 and is a Romney fan now, don't you.

See Post 57.

I have a feeling that Romney might have already won the chess game by parroting what he thinks conservatives want to hear. When he was running against Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts, Romney was parroting what liberals wanted to hear.

Liberals For Romney - More Liberal than Ted Kennedy

As far as the lack of opposition in Texas, I made a point on another thread that I believed that Perry had become a "Big Fish in a Small Pond" with weak opposition and had gotten overconfident, lazy and soft. He did not take his debate preparation seriously and, as a result, performed horribly.

I believe that it was also af_vet_rr who pointed out on that thread just how weak Perry's opposition had been.

[DTogo]

Regarding my Post 55: My friend it’s useless to reply to the FR windbags here who have never been to Texas....frankly, they are dumbasses in the highest order talking about a fence. I don’t even reply because there are actually not that many...they just show up on very thread with the same nonsense. Most of them are Yankee’s who I would like to round up and march their ignorant azzes along the nearly 1400 miles from Brownsville to the Arizona border and see what they had to say about a fence then. Unfortunately you just can’t help stupid people and it seems that FR has bunches of them lately... .... RVN Airplane Driver

Ever lived in a foreign country or two, where you had to go through their immigration process to obtain a visa to voluntarily live and work there?

Ever had to go through the same process several times when your visa was about to expire in those countries?

Ever been through the extremely arduous LEGAL process to bring a foreigner, your spouse of several years, back to America to live - wondering why it's so difficult as an officer in the US armed forces, and that you have American citizen children together?

Ever felt proud when your spouse finally obtained that cherished Green Card, knowing you were playing by the rules in getting it?

After all that, have you ever had a Republican President, some hack politician, a TV talking head, or a fellow conservative call you "a vigilante, a racist, a xenophobe, a nativist, heartless, a windbag, a dumbass, stupid" just because you want everyone else to follow the same rules you did, in your spouse's country, and now in your own?

[BobL]

“Granted that Perry is not as conservatives as you guys might want him to be but you do realize that the current conservative darling, Cain, was a Romney fan in 2008 and is a Romney fan now, don’t you.”

And who did you want Cain to support in 2008: McCain or Huckabee?

As to being a Romney fan now, I find that a bit difficult to accept, since the last time I checked, Cain was running AGAINST him for president. Maybe he’s said a nice word about Romney, rather than considering him HEARTLESS.

[BobL]

“As far as the lack of opposition in Texas, I made a point on another thread that I believed that Perry had become a “Big Fish in a Small Pond” with weak opposition and had gotten overconfident, lazy and soft. He did not take his debate preparation seriously and, as a result, performed horribly.”

I’m with you here and have been saying it since Perry entered the race, being that I live here in Texas. But we did get to see the REAL Perry, rather than some polished version of him - so that was good.

Also, I cannot imagine Perry having a prayer debating Hillary, or even Obama, for that matter. It’s just way over his head.

[BobL]

“I think it’s a cop out for anyone who’s actually been on the border. It’s like building a wall from Bangor, Maine to Miami, Florida.”

Ooooo, the heavy artillery (we were wondering where you were hiding...and we were having a lot of fun with these amateurs without you here). No, building a wall on the Mexican border is NOT the same as sealing off the Atlantic Ocean, and he making a total ass of himself every time he talks illegal immigration. He just not up to the issue.

[Liz]

You best post---hands down:

"Rick Perry says a fence won’t work....but in-state tuition for illegal aliens will!"

Priceless.

[Clairity]

Gov. Perry: Border Sheriffs are Our First Line of Defense

Aug. 10, 2010

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/14994/

Since 2009, Gov. Perry has repeatedly urged the federal government, through conversations with and letters to President Barack Obama, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, to approve his request for 1,000 Title 32 National Guardsmen to support civilian law enforcement efforts to enhance border security in Texas. On Monday, Gov. Perry reiterated that request in a four-page letter he presented to President Obama as he arrived for an appearance in Austin.

In the absence of adequate federal resources, Texas has proactively addressed border security with state funding, resources and personnel to protect our citizens. The State of Texas has committed more than $230 million over the last several years to amplify border security efforts and to shut down transnational gangs that work for Mexican drug cartels.

[Clairity]

Your Tagline needs an update:

Defeating Obama is Priority Number One

Update: Defeating Obama SHOULD BE Priority Number One

— but it isn’t to many here on FR. In fact, that seems to rate rather low in their list of priorities.

Much higher priority: LIE about and DISTORT Perry’s record on border security, help Romney, who will them be beaten by Obama, so they can whine for another four years, while the country is being distroyed beyond repair, but they will feel good that they knocked out Perry.

[Polybius]

....frankly, they are dumbasses in the highest order talking about a fence. I don’t even reply because there are actually not that many...they just show up on very thread with the same nonsense. Most of them are Yankee’s who I would like to round up and march their ignorant azzes along the nearly 1400 miles from Brownsville to the Arizona border and see what they had to say about a fence ..... RVN Airplane Driver

Ever lived in a foreign country or two, where you had to go through their immigration process to obtain a visa to voluntarily live and work there? Ever had to go through the same process several times when your visa was about to expire in those countries? Ever been through the extremely arduous LEGAL process to bring a foreigner, your spouse of several years, back to America to live - wondering why it's so difficult as an officer in the US armed forces, and that you have American citizen children together? Ever felt proud when your spouse finally obtained that cherished Green Card, knowing you were playing by the rules in getting it? ..... DTogo

"Yes", to many those questions, DTogo, in regards to my own MOTHER and sister and I was a U.S. Naval officer. { ... Still am, actually: CDR, MC,USNR (ret.) ... } As you will see, I took "playing by the rules" extremely seriously.

I left Cuba as a 6 year old with my divorced father when Castro took over but my maternal grandfather had been aiding the anti-Castro opposition and received a 30 year prison sentence. My mother, as the daughter of somebody convicted of treason, was not allowed to leave Cuba, remarried in Cuba and had my half-sister after I left. In the 1980's, after my grandfather had died, my mother could get a Cuban exit visa. However, Cuba/U.S. politics and no U.S. consular services in Cuba in the mid-1980's (long and complicated politcal mess) required my mother and sister to enter a "Third Country" to apply for her U.S. visa there. It was a Catch-22 because Third Countries required a guarantee that she would get a U.S. visa but no guarantee was possible until she actually applied there.

I was stationed in San Diego and, in my Lieutenant Commander dress blue uniform, went to the Mexican Consulate to plead my case, in fluent Spanish, with the Mexican consular officer, a rather polite lady. A couple of days later, she called me back and told me that is was all arranged but that $3,000 was required for somebody. In short, it was a, ... wink, wink, ... "under the table" deal and not really legal under Mexican law.

I could well afford the $3,000 but I declined since I, a Cuban-born U.S. Naval officer, had more respect for Mexican law than Mexico's own consular officer. (After another year and a half of dead ends, my mother and sister eventual got their visas after I made a direct appeal to President Reagan. The rules were "bent", on my behalf, by order of the White House, and my mother and sister got their visas without having to travel to a "Third Country".)

Yes, I am as "Rule of Law" as you can get. I sacrificed a year and a half of my mother's and sister's life because I respected Mexican law more than the Mexicans did.

However, as discussed in my Posts 55 and 58, the Texas objections to the "Fence in the middle of the Texas desert" that steals the entire Rio Grande riverfront from Texas property owners and gives that riverfront to Mexico have to do with common sense practicalities and not the "Rule of Law".

Not even the Israelis build a Fence in the Negev Desert. The HOSTILE COUNTRY is the Fence.

Perry has been the "Gotcha!" punching bag in these "30 Second Sound Bite" debates and, as I have posted on these threads, Perry was lazy and extremely dumb in not adequately preparing a response as to why 98% of the conservative Texas Legislature supported in-state tuition for 18 year olds that grew up in Texas through no fault of their own. Even the 18 year old son of the most despicable murderer on Texas Death Row has in-state tuition if he grew up in Texas through no fault of his own.

Perry was lazy in not preparing adequately for the debate and very stupid for using the word "heartless" in a response that was directed at everybody else on the stage that had been attacking him all night long and not to people watching on TV.

Perry has apologized for saying that.

Rick Perry apologizes for ‘heartless’ comment on immigration question

Just remember that the "winners" of this game were Romney and Cain, who has been a Romney supporter since 2008 and still is. See my earlier post.

[Polybius]

Your Tagline needs an update: Defeating Obama is Priority Number One..... Update: Defeating Obama SHOULD BE Priority Number One ..... — but it isn’t to many here on FR. In fact, that seems to rate rather low in their list of priorities.

Much higher priority: LIE about and DISTORT Perry’s record on border security, help Romney, who will them be beaten by Obama, so they can whine for another four years, while the country is being distroyed beyond repair, but they will feel good that they knocked out Perry.

Noted.

New Tag Line: "Defeating Obama should be Priority Number One"

[Polybius]

Granted that Perry is not as conservatives as you guys might want him to be but you do realize that the current conservative darling, Cain, was a Romney fan in 2008 and is a Romney fan now, don’t you.” .... Polybius

And who did you want Cain to support in 2008: McCain or Huckabee? .... BobL

Note the date of the endorsement: February 3, 2008.

That was two days BEFORE "Super Tuesday".

Super Tuesday 2008, Super Duper Tuesday, Mega Tuesday, Giga Tuesday, Tsunami Tuesday, and The Tuesday of Destiny are names for February 5, 2008, the day on which the largest simultaneous number of state U.S. presidential primary elections in the history of U.S. primaries were held.[Twenty-four states and American Samoa¤ held either caucuses or primary elections for one or both parties on this date

Cain could have supported ANYBODY....... Repeat ...... ANYBODY.

Yet, he supported Rimney.

He is still supporting Romney.

Herman Cain said Wednesday that he would be unable to support Rick Perry for president if the Texas governor were to eventually win the party's nomination. .... The former businessman said, for instance, that he could support former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney....

As to being a Romney fan now, I find that a bit difficult to accept, since the last time I checked, Cain was running AGAINST him for president.

Can you say "Stalking Horse", BobL?

A stalking horse is a person who tests a concept with someone or mounts a challenge against them on behalf of an anonymous third party. If the idea proves viable and/or popular, the anonymous figure can then declare their interest and advance the concept with little risk of failure. If the concept fails, the anonymous party will not be tainted by association and can either drop the idea completely or bide their time and wait until a better moment for launching an attack.

The Romney and Cain tag team is currently playing you like a cheap fiddle, BobL.

STATES UP FOR GRAB ON FEBRUARY 5, 2008 (SUPER TUESDAY, 2008), TWO DAYS AFTER HERMAN CAIN ENDORSED MITT ROMNEY IN AN ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN THE ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION

HERMAN CAIN'S ENDORSEMENT OF MITT ROMNEY PUBLISHED IN THE ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION PRIOR TO SUPER TUESDAY, 2008

Romney has the leadership qualities United States needs,

By HERMAN CAIN

Published on: 02/03/08

The dynamics of political party connections, the political process itself and public perceptions have once again yielded the top two contenders of each major party in the 2008 presidential race. And once again, the public can only hope that the ultimate winner of the White House will be a candidate with the most leadership substance.

My vote is for Mitt Romney.

History is important, but the future is more important. The success of this country in the future will be shaped by the leadership abilities of the next president.

Our success will not be based on pandering to uninformed voters, promising emotional quick fixes over common sense or nitpicking of opponents' past records. Success will come from focusing on the right problems and solving them. That will mean making tough decisions about some problems that have been with us for decades. It will also mean taking a tough stand on new problems and challenges.

That's what leaders do.

Mitt Romney has done that as a chief executive officer in business, as a governor and as head of the U.S. Olympics. He has done so while balancing political consequences but not compromising fundamental principles of the founding of this country or free-market economics. We have prospered as a nation by strengthening those principles; we will not remain strong if we allow those principles to become diluted with a lack of leadership.

Anyone who wishes to find a reason not to vote for Romney can find one. But the reasons to vote for him are far more compelling. He has successfully managed a real business with other people's money and some of his own. He has balanced budgets. He successfully led a turnaround situation with the Olympics. And he has spent more of his career outside government than inside.

On the other hand, John McCain has spent more of his career inside government than outside, and the reasons not to vote for him as the Republican nominee are very compelling.

He voted against letting people keep more of their money in 2001 and 2003 when President Bush pushed through his tax cuts. He has been part of the escalation of the federal debt during his 20-plus years in the U.S. Senate. He showed questionable leadership on a failed immigration bill. And he showed no leadership by failing to support the president's efforts to establish personal retirement accounts — a proposal that would have started to fix the coming financial train wreck in the Social Security system.

That's not leadership.

I do not question the character, integrity or sincerity of either Mitt Romney or John McCain, nor do I question their desire to do what's best for the country. I do not worry that they would fan the flames of social and religious differences. My focus is on their prospective leadership relative to national security, the economy, federal spending, free-market health care solutions and the elimination of dysfunctional programs.

Mitt Romney's history is more indicative of the substance needed to make major progress on critical issues, and not just to make more politically palatable incremental changes in Washington.

Media momentum and campaign funding aside, there are several other Republican candidates who would not cause me to worry about our grandchildren's future. The two leading Democratic presidential candidates, however, cause me great concern because of their severe lack of leadership substance and their policy proposals.

This is despite Barack Obama's appeal and strong public perception but entirely consistent with Hillary Clinton's self-proclaimed but quite invisible experience.

Great leaders are born, and good leaders keep working on it. We are not favored with an obvious great leader in the 2008 race, as is apparent from the primary process and the results thus far.

But Mitt Romney's leadership credentials offer the best hope of a leader with substance, and the best hope for a good president who could turn out to be great.

[Clairity]

Polybius (Defeating Obama should be Priority Number One)

:)

Now if people would only listen...

[DTogo]

Just remember that the "winners" of this game were Romney and Cain, who has been a Romney supporter since 2008 and still is.

Back in '08 Romney probably was the better choice of three bad choices. The only good thing that came out of McCain '08 was his running mate.

[Polybius]

Just remember that the "winners" of this game were Romney and Cain, who has been a Romney supporter since 2008 and still is. ... Polybius

Back in '08 Romney probably was the better choice of three bad choices. The only good thing that came out of McCain '08 was his running mate. .... DTogo

See my Post 73.

Herman Cain wrote his endorsement article of Mitt Romney, published in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, on February 3, 2008, two days BEFORE Super Tuesday, when Herman Cain could have supported ANYBODY.

Repeat ...... ANYBODY.

He chose to support Romney.

Today, he still chooses to support Romney.

Herman Cain said Wednesday that he would be unable to support Rick Perry for president if the Texas governor were to eventually win the party's nomination. .... The former businessman said, for instance, that he could support former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney....

Liberals For Romney - More Liberal than Ted Kennedy

What is the excuse for supporting Romney in 2011?

[Cincinatus' Wife]

****** Aug 13, 2009: Texas gov. compares Gaza to Mexico”……Perry also recalled the Texas-Israel Exchange - a body that supports the trade of agricultural know-how between Texan and Israeli scientists - which he established in 1991, while serving as the Texas Agriculture Commissioner.

"We have a connection that goes back many years," he said. "And Israel has a lot that we can learn from, especially in the areas of water conservation and semi-arid land - Israeli technology has helped us a lot in dealing with drought."

"But also," the governor continued, "when I was here for the first time some 18 years ago and I was touring the country, the comparison between Masada and the Alamo was not lost on me. I mean, we're talking about two groups of people who were willing to give up their lives for freedom and liberty." Beyond the comparisons, Gov. Perry said another point of his trip here was to show other people "what was really going on", with regards to the military threats facing the country, and in particular the IDF's recent Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip.

"We went to the border with Gaza and received a briefing from the army there, and we went to Sderot and saw the police station with all the Kassam rockets piled up, we saw playgrounds that had to be covered from rocket fire. It's a powerful place." In that vein, the governor said he was also interested in learning more about security aspects while in the country, as Texas has a large, porous border with Mexico, and the recent violence in that country had unnerved many Texans.

"Israel is a leader in security technology, and another reason for our visit to the Gaza border was to see some of the security measures being used there," said Perry.

"Kassam rockets have killed 28 Israelis over the last eight years. Well, 1,000 people have been killed in Juarez [Mexico, on the border with El Paso , Texas] since the beginning of the year [in drug-related violence]. So we're trying to find ways to secure that border, because just like it's important to Israelis to keep heavy security on their border with Gaza, it's important to citizens of Texas to keep out the illegal activities that are going on with drugs [in Mexico]……”.

[DTogo]

What is the excuse for supporting Romney in 2011?

You'd have to ask Herman Cain. This time around neither Romney nor Perry are good choices, IMHO.

[Polybius]

What is the excuse for supporting Romney in 2011?

You'd have to ask Herman Cain. This time around neither Romney nor Perry are good choices, IMHO.

Maybe that is so. The bottom line, however, is that Cain is playing a game to knock out Perry. That will leave only Romney standing.

As Sarah Palin said in her last interview with Greta, the media likes to build up Republican candidates one week in order to tear them down two weeks later. Cain was the "Flavor of the Week" after the last debate in order to hurt Perry. The long knives are already being sharpened for the attacks on Cain's positions which, until now, have only been catchy buzz words such as "My 999 Plan on my web page." As the saying goes, "The Devil is in the details". A National Sales Tax will be a nightmare for lower income working families, low income seniors, laid off workers trying to survive on what small amount of money and income they have left and those of us that have been savers all our lives and were Income Taxed when we earned our savings nest-eggs and will DOUBLE TAXED when we spend our already taxed savings under a National Sales Tax.

When you retire, if your plan was to live frugally on your military pension and Social security and a little money from a part time job, the Cain 999 Plan means that your plans have lost 9% of your purchasing power on the National Sales Tax alone. If his 999 Plan means that EVERYBODY pays 9% Income Tax too, (even those who are too low income to pay now) that means you purchasing power just lost another 9% in purchasing power.

When Cain is forced to move beyond "My 999 Plan" sound bites, he will be ripped apart.

After Cain ceases to be the Flavor of the Month, that will only leave Romney standing which is exactly who Cain wanted in 2008 and is who Cain wants now.

So, we will have President Romney because Perry, just as the Israelis, believes that Walls are useful in high population density areas but not in the middle of a desert that is ALREADY a natural barrier. In Texas such a Fence would also steal the entire Rio Grande riverfront from Texas property owners and put it on Mexico's side of such a Fence.

[upcountryhorseman]

A border fence worked in Israel!