Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, 9-9-9?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 9-9-9. That's Herman Cain's idea.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 8-8-8.
Posted on 09/30/2011 8:42:11 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
....Of Mr. Cain's many ideas, the most well-known -- in part because of its clever sound-bite name -- is his 9-9-9 plan which aims to replace most current federal taxes (including income tax, death tax, payroll tax, capital gains taxes, and double-taxation of dividends) with a 9% flat tax for business income, a 9% flattax for individual income, and a 9% national salestax. The plan would eliminate almost all deductions.
While Mr. Cain's consistent results-oriented approach is admirable -- not least for its contrast with the other candidates -- voters should be wary of the 9-9-9 plan despite its initial appeal. In short, it is somewhere between folly and economic suicide to implement a national salestax, even at a modest rate, without simultaneously repealing the 16th Amendment to the Constitution (which permits a national income tax.)
There is in economics a relatively new concept known as Hauser's Law, named for its creator, economist Kurt Hauser of the Hoover Institution. Hauser's law posits that the federal government cannot take more than about 19.5% of national income through taxation and that soaking the rich (or those whom President Obama defines as rich) will not generate the tax revenue..........
• United Kingdom: 36.1% total taxes/GDP, with a VAT rate of 17.5 percent taking 6.8% of GDP. (The UK's VAT rate has since been raised to 20 percent.)
• Germany: 36.7%, with a 19 percent VAT taking 6.7% of GDP.
• France: 43.7% total taxes/GDP, with a 19.6 percent VAT taking 7.3% of GDP
In other words, governments of these countries which have national sales taxes take far more of the national wealth than we do in the United States. There are several European countries with even more punishing VAT and income taxes, with Denmark's government confiscating an astonishing 48.8 percent of national income.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
This article says that tax revenue, as a percentage of GDP would remain flat or even slightly increase with a flat tax of 12 to 15%.
I would write the check for 15% today without any arguments and drop all my deductions and do it GLADLY if this were the limit and Social Security were dropped and Medicare were reformed or dropped.
This article says that tax revenue, as a percentage of GDP would remain flat or even slightly increase with a flat tax of 12 to 15%.
I would write the check for 15% today without any arguments and drop all my deductions and do it GLADLY if this were the limit and Social Security were dropped and Medicare were reformed or dropped.
ditto.
for the Sake of clarity can we do some math on this 9-9-9 tax.
Farmer Sells 1000$ worth of cattle to Butcher. Is 9% added.
Butcher converts 1000$ worth of Cattle into 1500$ worth of Meat and sell to Grocer. is 9% added.
Grocer Sell 1500$ worth of Meat to Consumer for 2000%. Is 9% added.
OR in other words
1000$ of cattle at 9% tax is 90$ ?
1500$ of Meat at 9% tax is 135$ ?
2000$ of Groceries at 9% tax is 180$ ?
How much tax is collected. 405$ ??
Another so-called expert but no where have I seen someone attempt to mention how much money grey market earners (drug dealers, under-the-table employee’s, etc) spend. Therefore we don’t exactly know what they would contribute by paying the 9% national sales tax. However, I do know they would be paying more federal taxes than they pay today.
Also, even with the empowerment zones, the 9-9-9 plan is a fairer system because most of the 47% who pay no taxes would start to contribute instead of being sponges on the rest of us.
This 999 plan is bullshit.
Like the original XVI Amendment, it began as one thing and morphed into something else. Mainly the 16th began as a tax on corporations that were and still are afford certain protections under Federal and State laws (including persons deriving their livelihood from taxpayer monies). Private businesses were not originally affected by the 16th including private wage earners, that was redefined/came/morphed later.
People need to understand their unalienable rights and one is the pursuit of happiness where working or having a job is not a gain in society but just a right, and has nothing to do with income
VAT is a socialistic plan to confiscate funds for redistribution, the bureaucracy needed for accounting alone means it doomed from the start.
A national tax in lieu of the 16th makes some sense if only because it is spread among everyone during consumption. The income portion of the 999 plan is crap and based on current overall taxation in part.
Starve the beast.
Didn’t you just describe the VAT and not the 999? I think the 999 tax is only on the end product.
Amen. Even the slightest vestige left of a law taxing income will be the camel's nose in the tent. The biggest plus I see is that if the corporations pay a flat tax, all those tax-deductible perks go out the window, Mind you, they can still offer those perks to their execs, it's just that the tax-payer no longer foots the bill. The smart corporations will redirect that money into trying a get a larger market share or into R&D - a win-win for them and this country.
That means mass unemployment for the spendy resorts and restaurants, for instance, and a blessed massacre of the K Street lobbyists. Also relief from the "contribute to my campaign and I'll pass a bill favorable to you" blackmail by the pols.
Throw in replacing tax-payer-funded retirements with 401`Ks and you've broken the back of the professional politicians.
Hearing a lot of “ITS GOOD” No “ITS BAD IS JUST A VAT”.
Hearing a lot of “Experts” explain 9-9-9 but so far its just wind blowing both directions.
I am with holding my opinion of 9-9-9 until I can see an explanation.
Personally Like Cain as the best one that has declared. But that does not mean his 9-9-9 get a pass from me just because it new.
If its just the End Product, Then Theorectically a Farmer that produces 100% of what he Consumes will pay NO tax at all.
Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, 9-9-9?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 9-9-9. That's Herman Cain's idea.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 8-8-8.
Right now those items ARE taxes at the current 35% Business tax rate since each business has to pay it taxes out of profits generated in each sale. SO 9-9-9 would actually reduce the tax burden on these items
The plan is outlined on his web site.
He told Chris Wallace the other Sunday a detailed version is coming that he wants professionally scored.
The same political and economic pressure that prevents the Congress from simply hiking tax rates when ever it feels like now, would apply to even a great extent in a 9-9-9 system.
Everyone pays so everyone knows any tax hike means they pay more. Under 9-9-9 the is no more illusion that someone else is paying for your "help" from the Government
The problem I’ve got with 9-9-9 is that down the road its liable to be 20-20-20.
Good grief man. A farmer buys a $200,000 tractor, a $50,000 wagon, a $100,000 corn planter, a $50,000 manure spreader and other high cost items. Then he buys clothes, appliances, and all the other stuff any of us buy. How in heavens name did you think he was going to get by with no tax at all?
For some only Red Meat Rhetoric is what counts, actions and experience not so much.
Please people!!!! Learn the difference between a VAT and NST. DO not use the terms interchangeably- they are vastly different!
Actually, it would be less. Your 9% tax owed was in addition to the 6.5% you paid for Social Security (actually, you pay 13%, your employer merely remits the other half on your behalf) and the 1.5% or so for Medicare. Both of those are eliminated under 9-9-9
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