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To: Sherman Logan

What is fake is the direction the language has been taking. Hindustani, as you correctly state, is the lingua franca of non Panjabi north India.

This includes the modern day states of UP, Bihar and Madhya Pradesh.

ALL Urdu speakers in Pakistan (bar none!) came as refugees from these states. The original provinces of West Pakistan spoke Pashto, Panjabi, Sindhi and Baluch as their NATIVE languages.

So, in comes this Urdu speaking minority (under 10% by most estimates) and imposes Urdu on the entire Pakistani nation (including erstwhile Bangladesh or East Pakistan)

Not only that, but because they are afraid, people will recognize Urdu for what it is (Hindustani or even Hindi with a Persian script) they start Arabizing it inserting made up Arabic or Persian words

So, now you have Pakistanis speaking this dumb Arabized language that bears no relationship to the Urdu of old.

Another way that Pakistan continues to have excrement in every part of its culture and society


24 posted on 09/25/2011 9:19:58 PM PDT by SoftwareEngineer
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To: SoftwareEngineer
people will recognize Urdu for what it is (Hindustani or even Hindi with a Persian script) they start Arabizing it inserting made up Arabic or Persian words

Urdu is every bit as old as Hindi. They evolved together and neither is more "real" than the other.

The two languages exist on a continuum, with extreme Urdu having more Arabic (from the Koran, primarily) and Persian vocabulary, and extreme Hindi having more Sanskrit and Prakrit vocabulary.

Extremists in both camps artificially import words from their respective religious source languages.

Linguists, scientists who study language, just don't use terms like "real" languages. That is the province of nationalists or ethnocentrists (linguocentrists?) out to make a political or ideological point.

If any modern language spoken by a large group of people is "fake," it's the Hebrew spoken in Israel, which was artificially revived for political reasons. They tried the same thing in Ireland, and probably in other countries, but I'm not aware of it having worked anywhere but Israel.

25 posted on 09/25/2011 9:31:02 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: SoftwareEngineer
So, in comes this Urdu speaking minority (under 10% by most estimates) and imposes Urdu on the entire Pakistani nation (including erstwhile Bangladesh or East Pakistan)

Very simple reason for this. Urdu and English are the two official languages of Pakistan for the logical reason that neither is a "native" language.

If any of the native languages had been chosen as the official language, the others would have objected violently. Urdu and English, being equally foreign to all native Pakistanis, didn't offend anybody by favoring one native language over the others. My understanding is that just about everybody in Pakistan speaks or understands at least some Urdu today, even though it's probably not their birth language.

26 posted on 09/25/2011 9:37:35 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: SoftwareEngineer; Sherman Logan; muawiyah
Great analysis S/w Engg. What you have described also describes what has been happening in other areas of Pakistan -- the Pakistanis have, since the 80s, been trying to convince the world that they are racially and ethnically not descended from South Asians but from the "Arab and Persian and Turkish" invaders. No amount of genetic proof (that shows them essentially of the same stock that is in north-central India) will convince them

Of course Iranis and Arabs laugh at this

Pakistan is a schizophrenic society -- it has trashed its past and now has no idea who it is or what it stands for -- all it knows is to fight and kill, forever looking for the "other".

31 posted on 09/26/2011 12:56:38 AM PDT by Cronos (www.forfiter.com)
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