Posted on 09/25/2011 6:19:28 AM PDT by steveshoveler
There's a fine logical point which Perry totally missed the other night and probably has been missing for years.
The question of how good or how badly we treat illegal aliens' kids is not related to the main fear which most conservatives and pubbies have about the issue, which is the idea of a rogue political party simply being able to import voting blocks for itself.
What we need is a law requiring somebody to be a US citizen for 10 or maybe even 20 years before they ever vote in a US election. I.E. take the main incentive out of it. THEN you could have the debate as to whether or how much we spend educating them...
Perry is NOT real bright.
That works for me.
This is EXACTLY why Jim opened his living room up for us ... to talk and bandy about ideas.
Yours sounds good and worthy of thought and discussion.
.
,,,,,,, lost my potential vote on his immigration beliefs and policies .
I’d permanently BAR a person who was caught in the country illegally from EVER voting or obtaining citizenship. Their ceiling is lawful permanent residence.
Perry could survive depite these issues. His inability to handle the issues and then turn to name calling is what is killing it. He is letting two minor issues....a ten year old popular bill on education and the guarasil issue...dominate these debates and cause severe damage. The tx dream act had near universal support among all electedofficals because it is constructed in a whole different way than the current liberal bills of a similar name. He has bumbled and fumbles the issue to the point of
Iterally insluting those who disagree. We need a skilled campaigner to take on the media and Obama, and he has fallen very, very short on that requirement. He can turn it around, but even a lot of people like me that WANTED to get behind Perry are pretty skeptical that he can perform effectively under fire.
The right to vote is certainly not the illegals’ main incentive for coming and staying here. Democrats are patient and, even if they weren’t, I don’t see how delaying the right to vote after providing amnesty and citizenship should affect the question of subsidizing illegals’ college educations.
(BTW, given the reality of affirmative action, they already are moved to the head of the line in admission before white and Asian citizens and other legal residents, before you even start talking about the competition for state subsidies.)
That is completely wrong for all those immigrants who came here legally, jumped through the hoops, earned their own way and finally became citizens.
"The idea that heartless Americans are gonna
vote for a great guy like me makes no sense."
It is true that the nation has elected incoherent Texans to the White House, but Perry alone has come up with THE dumbest non-sequiturs. This one at the FLA venue takes the cake: Perry’s debate answer WRT what he’d do if the White House phone rang at 3 AM......informing him that the Taliban had gotten control of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons.
“Well, obviously, before you ever get to that point, you have to build a relationship in that region. And that’s one of the things that this administration has not done. Just yesterday we found out through Admiral Mullen that Haqqani has been involved with — and that’s the terrorist group directly associated with the Pakistani country — so to have a relationship with India, to make sure that India knows that they are an ally of the United States.” Perry went on to tell a story about how the Obama administration wouldn’t sell upgraded F-16 fighters to India. which n-e-v-e-r happened.
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Perry's candidacy-ending response was when he thumbed his nose at his country and its citizenry, saying those who disagreed with him on in-state tuition are "heartless." The inference was that only Perry was Truly Worthy (b/c only he had sucked up to Mexico).
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Perry was anticipating the triumphal moment when he would be able to nail Romney for being a flip-flopper---and had prepared for it. This was Perry's response: “I think Americans just don’t know sometimes which Mitt Romney they’re dealing with. Is it the Mitt Romney that was on the side of — against the Second Amendment before he was for the Second Amendment? Was it — was before — he was before the social programs from the standpoint of — he was for standing up for Roe versus Wade before he was against first — Roe versus Wade? Him — he was for Race to the Top. He’s for Obamacare and now he’s against it. I mean, we’ll wait until tomorrow and — and — and see which Mitt Romney we’re really talking to tonight.”
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All in all, Perry has a complete lack of presidential gravitas — he has an odd way of responding to a debater, then cocking his head in an almost mechanical way, posing with a self-satisfied grin (as if he had just paged through his vast holdings he's accumulated in Texas politics).
Here’s another point: Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but the TX Dream Act is in direct violation of federal law. Perry apparently thinks he can decide which federal laws he cares to uphold. Speaking for myself, I’ve had a bellyful of that attitude with the current admin.
Would require an amendment, not a law. Violates the 14th amendment.
The franchise should be limited to honorably discharged veterans instead of anyone who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37 C.
While I’m not with Perry or my state on the issue of illegal in-state tuition, I think Perry failed to make a point on that, too.
The children of illegals have to have been going attending and graduated Texas schools for at least three years. Yes, he mentioned that but....
Being in Texas schools for three years would mean that the students family has been shopping and living in Texas, paying sales tax and property tax— even as a renter property tax shows up in your rent. Anyhow, the student would have had family paying taxes to Texas in varied ways.
That is something that students that are from out of state would not have been doing. Perry has not pointed that out.
That’s because you can’t explain the inside baseball politics of Texas in 30 seconds. Perry could also mention that there are a dozen states that allow in-state tuition for illegals...it’s not unique to Texas.
As a guy with a real job, Perry is trying to make things work. He doesn’t have the luxury of just posting on Facebook or being in a debate society.
My understanding is that if they filed the affidavit to acquire their “permanent residency” in the US, then the in-state tuition is constitutional.
And remember, they HAVE TO PAY IT. Taxpayers do not pay their tuition. Romney was very deceiving in that most of the kids are going to community colleges and actually just get a $100. to $400 off their tuition. They are not going to U of Texas etc...
But, there are many states that have in-state tuition, not just Texas.
And Perry did not decide this law. It was decided by the Texas Legislature by huge majority and only 4 nay votes.
Perry could not have overturned the law even if he wanted to.
Now, the Tx Legislature can overturn it if they choose.
The root problem is that Federal Law is not being enforced by the Federal Government - and Federal Government has caused the illegal immigration problem to escalate into this huge mess.
Regarding illegals (not their kids):
Fed will not secure border.
If a state tries to do its job for them - they sue them.
If a state tries to make it harder - Fed sues them.
(ie: Voter ID is on hold in Texas due to Fed)
Texas can catch them and turn them over to Ice.
Ice will not deport them.
There was a case recently where illegals were caught with a huge cache of weapons - the Fed Court gave them 10 months.
Feds say we have to educate and treat medically.
But the states have to pay - not the Fed.
And then the Federal Government is running guns into Mexico to the cartels.
It’s insane.
Perry needs to HIT OBAMA and forget about the other candidates.
Perry needs to point out that the Obama Administration is RUNNING GUNS across the border.
He is so much better than he has come across and I can only hope that he can get better at communicating and debating.
Perry has to remember that he is not talking to Texans who have a better grasp of what he is talking about but rather he is talking to America.
An America that on a whole do not have to contend with the illegal immigration mess (on the level Texas or other border states have to) our government has got us into.
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