Posted on 09/19/2011 12:12:21 PM PDT by Brookhaven
At the edge of the tailwater of the Kinzua Dam on the Allegheny River in Warren County sits a hydroelectric generating station.
But the Seneca Pumped-Storage Hydro Generating Station isn't powered by the water flowing through the dam, like the more familiar hydroelectric projects such as Hoover Dam, but rather from a 2 billion gallon reservoir perched some 800 feet above, among the trees of the Allegheny National Forest.
"Pumped-storage hydro is a different animal," said Mark Durbin, spokesman for the facility's operator, First Energy Generation Corp.
Durbin pointed out the station can generate 451 megawatts of electricity, but only for 10 hours a day. It then takes 14 hours to pump water back up to the perfectly round upper reservoir, about the size of a small NASCAR track, to start the process again, he said.
The station also uses more electricity than it generates, so at a glance it might seem absurd. But for those in the business of keeping the lights on, it's a valuable asset that helps the utility make money and meet the fluctuating demands of the power grid, noted civil engineer Rick Miller, who works for the Nebraska-based firm HDR Inc.
(Excerpt) Read more at altoonamirror.com ...
corralate s/b correlate - spel kheck iz mi freind...
Run of the river hydro (which is the old-fashioned style of using natural river current to run the generators) has been around a long time, but it’s nearly IMPOSSIBLE today to build one, because they ALWAYS find some endangered “furbian lousewort” animal, or “yellow-bellied dwarf carp” species that would be harmed, and the red-tape and legal costs prohibit building them.
It also works for Nuclear generators with output that can’t be as carefully output controlled
They power the pumps at night when other load is less
I was really just throwing the idea out there tongue and cheek. But seriously, gravity is free and works pretty well. I don’t see why it may not be viable in some situations and I sure we could improve on the 2000 year old solution to moving water where it was needed.
There are small generators which use the mill race concept to elevate the water and let it fall through a turbine to generate power. I think that is the kind of green solution that makes more sense than windmills provided the geography and weather are right.
Georgia Power has had an example of this in operation on the Oconee River for a couple of decades.
In the day time,
water flowing from Lake Oconee through Wallace Dam on its way to Lake Sinclair spins turbines to generate electricity to help supply the daytime base load.
At night,
when excess generating capacity is available, pumps send that same water from Lake Sinclair back upstream into Lake Oconee.
True; the Kinzua Dam is on the Allegheny River, in the Allegheny National Forest. The upper reservoir at Seneca Plant is a man-made "pond", with an asphalt-lined bottom, constructed purely to hole the pumped storage water from the plant, to be released when generation was brought on-line, and flows out into the Allegheny River from the output of the generators. The drop in elevation from the Upper Reservoir to the River is about 700 ft. or so, which gives the "head" for generators to function.
Any Engineer that cut the capacity of the grid that close should be fired.
The need for this is bad Engineering.
The only possible need for something like this would be a location so remote that it is off the grid. Like a remote coal mine.
That is drivel.
Pumped storage is carefully engineered to provide maximum results for least cost. Pumped storage associated with nuclear generation is high order engineering design.
I am glad to see the quality of responses on this thread!
I will add a couple of thoughts about the Altoona Mirror article because it does raise questions that are not easily answered.
I believe that the system as described by the environmental group is based on outdated technology and I agree that the use of water taken from a high quality trout stream might cause degradation. I'm thinking about depletion of oxygen content and increase in temperature as it is pooled for later use. Wouldn't a closed system reusing water over and over (which this likely is as described by the hydro engineer) work just as well since the only requirement is water and gravity (and, yes, a pump and pipes etc.)?
The article does state that the company proposing the project didn't respond to inquiries. Too bad, they had the opportunity to inform the public but didn't and the enviros were ready with their finger pointing machine. Their statement...
"Kotala said the fact the facility would offer no net gain to power production and "the only thing that would be generated is money for the owners" was another reason the conservation groups were against it."
Pretty well condenses their agenda into one line.
ok, whatever
you spend 10M for what you could have done for 1M and your operating cost is 100x more.
If that is high engineering, I not buying it.
ok, whatever
you spend 10M for what you could have done for 1M and your operating cost is 100x more.
If that is high engineering, I not buying it.
Here’s the explanation. The parameters are carefully considered to produce a net gain at less cost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
See Slide 118 for Generation Operation and 138 for Load Dispatching at http://www.ercot.com/meetings/ros/keydocs/2008/0227/ERCOT_final_pres_d1_w-o_backup.pdf
The ZIP Code doesn’t doesn’t matter. Climate data for your ZIP code isn’t going to help you determine if it is 98 degrees with 80% relative humidity outside tomorrow or if it is 67 with 70% relative humidity. All you need is the outdoor temp, indoor wet bulb and the time it takes to raise the indoor set point of the thermostat to a certain degree to be able have a computer manage your building’s cooling or heating load. Psychromentrics is your friend.
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