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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

I have a question.
Proper Trim on a plane means that when you take your hands and feet off the controls the plane will fly flat and straight.
I think. :)
If he lost his trim (If it’s even what i am thinking) Wouldn’t and expert such as the pilot just compensate for it?
Another theory i read is he took the corner so tight and fast he may have blacked out momentarily.

Prayers for all involved.


9 posted on 09/17/2011 6:52:54 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: mowowie

From building R/C planes I know that poor aerodynamics on the elevator can cause it to flutter and self destruct. I wonder if the trim piece caused the damage or was a symptom?


14 posted on 09/17/2011 7:04:58 PM PDT by cannon fodder
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To: mowowie
If he lost his trim (If it’s even what i am thinking) Wouldn’t and expert such as the pilot just compensate for it?

Probably. I'm not sure how a P-52 works, but the tab may have been a control tab. Loss of a control tab (especially low to the ground) could make moving the elevators very difficult...or impossible.

17 posted on 09/17/2011 7:06:06 PM PDT by TankerKC (One of the lessons of 9-11 was that evil is real...and so is courage. -George W. Bush 9-11-11)
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To: mowowie

If the tab failed as it appeared to do the pilot would encounter a sudden aft stick force. I have never flown a P-51 so I don’t know what the control forces are like in that aircraft.


19 posted on 09/17/2011 7:07:01 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: mowowie

I could be wrong (and someone tell me if I am) but those planes are high performance, operating at the edge...traveling at that speed, that close to the ground and losing a trim tab probably makes the plane just a tad unstable.


20 posted on 09/17/2011 7:13:21 PM PDT by rlmorel (9/11: Aggression is attracted to weakness like sharks are to blood, and we were weak. We still are.)
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To: mowowie

The trim is just a micro adjustment to compensate for cross winds so the pilot doesn’t have to constantly adjust the controls to maintain a constant heading.

I don’t know if the plane used hydraulic, cables or what. If it is cables, a snapped cable could wrap around, jam, or freeze controls.

I’m just guessing. Usually something like this isn’t caused by one thing but several failures (Murphy’s Law).


27 posted on 09/17/2011 7:58:06 PM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: mowowie

He could compensate for a small loss of trim, but may not have the strength to compensate foor a large loss. Remember too that the plane was moving fast just above the ground, with little time to react.


32 posted on 09/17/2011 8:07:42 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: mowowie

Read Chuck Yeagars book , he did post war testing in the P-51.
During the war polits were losing the aircraft in dives for some (then ) unknown reason.
Chuck found himself in a dive which the elevators had no effect. The faster he went the more the aircraft pitched forward,thus going faster and trying to tuck under.
He deployed flap and then the landing gear , which slowed him down enough to gain control of the Aircraft. (He lost the gear doors and stressed one main landing gear strut rearwards a couple of inches)
IT was determined that as the aircraft went faster the center of gravity (lift) moved back along the wing (airfoil) causing a pitch down.
In this case flying the aircraft in the speed range, the trim tabs are more effective that the elevator itself. If he lost the trim tab, he lost control of the entire aircraft


41 posted on 09/17/2011 9:10:00 PM PDT by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: mowowie
If he lost his trim (If it’s even what i am thinking) Wouldn’t and expert such as the pilot just compensate for it?

My impression is that a P-51 at higher speeds needs up elevator tab (for down elevator to keep the nose from climbing) to compensate for the higher lift from the wings.

When the elevator trim separates at racing speed, there can be an immediate and abrupt, multi-g climb that can g-loc (grey-out) any pilot. The photos suggest to this non-NTSB expert (although I am a pilot) that the instant high-g climb and resultant loss of consciousness of the pilot is a possibility that invites thorough investigation.

One hopes that the overall effect of the tragedy will be to engineer safer and redundant airplane elevator trim tabs, and not to eliminate or otherwise ruin this usually great annual event.

55 posted on 09/17/2011 10:07:25 PM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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