Posted on 08/29/2011 6:35:07 PM PDT by The Bronze Titan
Whack-a-mole; that’s cute. Haven’t been out of the game rooms long I see. Be that as it may, I’m not a Perry apologist but you Palinbots are getting tiresome. The fur is flying and it’s creating one heck of a mess. That said, your debunking appears to be, well, bunk. A difference of perspective; nothing more.
“DO you keep the same view of the 1st amendment (which is what I’m talking about, not islam), or does your view of the 1st amendment change depending on what candidate you want to attack, or what religion someone is following?”
A lot of us here don’t look at Islam as being protected by the First Amendment. For example, in parts of London they have set up a complete legal system and basically control access (pretty much preventing anyone employed by the government from entering), along with a dress code for women...enforced through their courts. And they are beginning those steps here, such as in Dearborn.
So, no, Islam is a political system and the First Amendment has nothing to do with it.
...but you are welcome to try to convince us that it’s just a bunch of people bowing down 5 times a day and nothing more...if that’s what Perry needs out of you. You just won’t find too many takers here...we are FAR, FAR too well-informed for that.
“I doubt Perry has any different view of muslims than Palin, who wrote a tweet quoted by her supporters to what she called “Peace-loving muslims”. There are freepers who don’t believe there IS any such tning as “peace-loving Muslims”.”
Count me in. I’ve seen enough of the Koran to know that a Muslim can only be peace-loving in a society when that society is governed by Sharia.
...so yes, there can be peace-loving Muslims in the US, but not if they’re following their own book.
“...so yes, there can be peace-loving Muslims in the US, but not if they’re following their own book.”
But consider also that “taquayya” (SP?) says that it is acceptable, even preferable for a Muslim to lie to an infidel to further the cause of Islam, so How can we ever really believe a single thing a ‘muslim’ says?
Charles has one hell of a job getting over that particular hurdle in his support of Muslims in America.
“Charles has one hell of a job getting over that particular hurdle in his support of Muslims in America.”
Being in love with a particular candidate often causes one to lose all sense of right and wrong. Kinda scary when you think about it.
Perry isn’t even my candidate, and I haven’t changed my views on islam.
Which candidate running for President agrees with your opinion that Islam isn’t protected by the 1st amendment?
Islamic law as a political system doesn’t fall under the 1st amendment. That doesn’t mean the religion of islam doesn’t fall under the 1st amendment.
The jewish faith is also a religion that included an entire political system; the political system of the old testament wouldn’t fall under the 1st amendment if someone tried to institute it today in this country, but the jewish faith itself would still be protected.
So, I wonder under what law his opponents think Perry would have had the right, as governor, to prevent the building of an islamic center.
I see nothing to suggest that Perry is a muslim appeaser, any more than I think Sarah Palin tweeting to “peace-loving muslims” means that she is a dhimmi.
I want to know which current or possible candidate for President meets your criteria by opposing the treatment of Islam as a religion under the 1st amendment.
I didn’t bash anyone and explained to you why I read Perry threads. My comment to you was the only one I made on this thread. If you check my thread history I have never bashed Perry and the only thing I’ve ever commented on in a Bachmann thread is her hiring of Rollins & maybe her lack of executive experience.
Whether the purpose of the thread was to discredit Perry or not doesn’t justify you calling everyone who agrees with the premise of the article stupid (unless “not bright” means something else to you than it does to everyone else). I think the people who were refuting it’s premise did an excellent job of defending Perry. Yet, instead of addressing the point of my post to you, you go on the defensive.
There have been threads discrediting every candidate running. That’s normal and those that support said candidate should defend him/her if they think it’s wrong or there are extenuating circumstances. I have absolutely no idea what posting this article has to do with posters not having an imagination or justifies questioning their intelligence.
Cindie
Apparently not this one, except the lame accusation that he didn’t spot it before it had time to die on its own.
I’ll ask again — which candidate for President, current or possible, agrees with your position that Islam is not a religion?
I ask that question because it is clearly pointless to try to have a rational discussion with you on the topic, and since we are really discussing picking a candidate, I figured it would be easier if I just saw how your opinion leads you to pick a candidate.
“Being in love with a particular candidate often causes one to lose all sense of right and wrong. Kinda scary when you think about it.”
Very much so. In the last week alone I have seen people completely blow off issues that would, under normal circumstances, end a politician as an option immediately. There are posts telling opponents to ‘shut up”, to “Stop beating dead horses”, that legitimate issues “don’t matter” and dozens more just as insane. And that’s not even getting into the excuses, rationalizations, blow-offs et all.
If that is the prevailing attitude in the conservative movement today toward vetting a candidate’s fitness for the biggest seat in the land, then conservatism as we knew it is dead. Fortunately, I think it’s just a handful of star struck people that bandwagon the latest and greatest. Most will move on to another “best candidate EVER!!!” when Perry’s initial numbers settle in and the bloom wears off the rose.
False premise Chuck. We are talking about YOUR appeasement.
As for RP, that’s the whole point of Vetting him. So we KNOW where he stands. Just like Palin, just like Bachmann, Cain and the rest. Or do you have a problem with full disclosure from our candidates? How about a problem vetting them?
As soon as the candidates address the issue publicly, we won’t know the answer to your second question, now will we?
Now how DO YOU get around that Taquyya thing chuck?
CT that will not work,Try again after you learn more about Islam.
As you are fond of doing, you are repeating a lie to purge the truth about rick perry. I told you repeatedly you people had deliberately mixed up two different programs to confuse the issue as though in YOUR eyes, that was the end of it. Well, it isn’t. And there is another issue brewing on the horizon as well because of perry’s pandering. You can’t whitewash everything. And I never once used Pmela Geller’s infomation or articles. I used info straight from one of the school districts, of which there were TEN.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2764459/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2764368/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2764581/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2766609/posts
I did not use salon either, as I was accused of. Now here comes a freight train. How are you perry supporters going to deal with this one after you accused me of racism and bigotry over laraza which perry has ALSO pandered to as recently as July?
THIS is laraza.
Raza studies make assimilation impossible (w/shocking video)
A large percentage of students enrolled in the Tucson Unified School District (TUSD), just as in much of Arizona’s public school systems are the children of immigrants, both legal and illegal. One of the courses those children are being taught is so-called Raza studies or Mexican-American studies.
Raza studies (race studies) have been taught in the TUSD for about a dozen years.
One of the textbooks they use is titled “Occupied America,” which was written by Rodolfo Acuña and includes a speech given by activist and university professor Jose Angel Gutierrez in which he says: “We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him,” (pg. 323).
The book also talks about the need for Mexico to re-take seven states in the Southwestern United States.
The following rather shocking quotes are taken directly from Occupied America (pg. 167):
“Supporters would execute all white males over age 16,” (also known as the Plan of San Diego).
“The Southwest would become a Chicano nation.”
In addition to using taxpayer funds to enforce such polarizing beliefs in Latino children in traditional public schools, the organization known as La Raza operates 100 charter schools across the country. The following is a list of a few of those schools:
-La Academia Semillas del Pueblo (Los Angeles)
-Atzlan Academy (Tucson, AZ)
-Mexicayotl Academy (Nogales, AZ)
-The Dolores Huerta Prepatory High School (Pueblo, CO)
-Academia Cesar Chavez Charter School (St. Paul, MN)
In 2005 alone, $7.9 million in taxpayer funding was given out to these charter schools in the form of U.S. Department of Education grants. These schools stress Latino culture, the Spanish language, the re-conquest of the American Southwest, the establishment of the mythical Atzlan, and even Aztec math.
Raza studies are now also being taught at many public universities across this country.
The United States is often referred to as the “Great Melting Pot.”
However, teaching children such ethno-centric values and even over-taking a portion of this country, through violence if necessary can only lead to those students’ further isolation and distrust of anyone who looks or sounds different from them.
There is no place for race studies in public classrooms.
View the video at left for a shocking look at the Raza studies and so-called Reconquista movement…
Actually, you are talking about some false idea you've dreamed up in your head, based on no evidence, and hoping that if you repeat it enough, someone might stupidly believe you instead of what they actually read.
I think freepers are smarter than that.
It is clear we have a few freepers posting in this thread who have no respect for the freedom of religion enshrined by our founding fathers in the 1st amendment.
I proudly stand by the 1st amendment, even though it means we have to put up with abhorent religious beliefs.
We also have to strongly oppose sharia law. That job will only be made harder by those few who equate that fight with the banning of the religion of Islam. But if you are so certain of your position, advocate for a constitutional amendment that removes 1st amendment protection for islam. WHen you get an elected politician to agree with you, let me know.
But thanks for making it clear that your argument has nothing at all to do with picking a candidate.
Ace But your Candidate supports Our mortal enemy!
Chuck, you are a liar. Taquyya is not an ‘Idea I dreamed up’ in my head, it is a tenet of Islam and you only look like a fool denying it. Since you respond to these posts, you apparently can read, just not comprehend. Read the Koran until you understand it.
You cannot oppose Sharia Law and be OK with Islam as a religion as it is “Inseparable” from Islam.
When you get an American to agree with you, let me know.
http://www.saisd.net/admin/curric/sstudies/mhcp/mhcproject.html
San Antonio Independent School District
What is the Muslim Histories and Culture Project (MHCP)?
The Muslim Histories and Cultures Project was born out of discussions between His Highness The Aga Khan and Texas Governor Rick Perry during the Summer 2002, when The Aga Khan was in Houston for the dedication of a new Ismaili Center. Both His Highness and Governor Perry agreed on the need for Texans to have a greater understanding of Islamic culture, and subsequently brought UT-Austin President Larry Faulkner into the discussions. Located in the state capital, Faulkner’s campus is well positioned to accomplish these goals. A series of meetings followed, with the project ultimately finding a home in UT-Austin’s College of Liberal Arts, under the guidance of Dean Richard W. Lariviere, in association with UT Liberal Arts (UT-LA), the college’s teacher preparation program.
In April 2004, the Aga Khan Foundation (AKF) and UT-Austin finalized a grant proposal that created the partnership that became known as the Muslim Histories and Cultures Program (MHC). Much has happened since the inception of the partnership. Creation and implementation of a model was of prime importance. MHC recruited and directly trained 80 teachers affecting approximately 15,150 students of World History and World Geography in ten key Texas districts during the two sessions conducted in 2005 and 2006. The purpose is two-fold 1) to fulfill Governor Rick Perry’s desire to better educate Texas teachers on Muslim topics and 2) to train teachers to use a cultural lens approach to understanding other cultures. Governor Perry was instrumental in getting this program off the ground.
The curriculum for this project was developed at Harvard University and modified at the University of Texas at Austin.
The responsibilities of the participants are:
~to attend the 10 seminars and complete the assigned readings.
~to attend the January, April, and June meetings in Austin.
~to create lessons concerning Islamic topics with a “cultural lens” approach tied to their grade level to share with other teachers.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=953&sid=cf49d9fe174ed907d103d9f26b5e55af
09:01 PM CDT on Tuesday, June 14, 2005
By LINDA STEWART BALL / The Dallas Morning News
PLANO – The Ismaili Muslim community announced Tuesday that it is building a $6.5 million worship and community center in Plano, where it has found a warm welcome.
Gov. Rick Perry flew in to lay the first ceremonial brick for the center’s foundation. It was a symbolic gesture since the site for the new center will be a few miles northeast of the Gleneagles Country Club in Plano, where the foundation ceremony was held.
The governor, who is friends with the Ismaili Muslims’ spiritual leader, His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan, said he was honored to participate.
“Our culture is enriched and our society strengthened by a diverse mixture of traditions, heritages and faiths,” Mr. Perry said. “While differences may exist on the surface, there is a common hope for the future that dwells in the heart of every Texan.”
The Ismaili Jamatkhana and Center is a house of worship for Ismailis and a gathering place for youths. The proposed 30,000-square-foot Plano facility will be the first one in Collin County and one of **five** Jamatkhanas in North Texas.
snip
The complex eschews the domes typically found atop Islamic mosques in favor of a more contemporary structure with gardens, a prayer hall, social space, and administrative and education wings.
Ismailis belong to the Shia tradition of Islam, which is a sect of the Shiite group. As such, they believe in one God and consider the Quran the holy text through which God’s words were revealed to the prophet Muhammad. They believe that Muhammad was the last of God’s messengers to mankind.
http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/dn/religion/stories/061505dnmetismailicenter.d99ed2f.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/perrys_problematic_pals.html
But Perry has been sucked into the propaganda vortex, and is now wielding his enormous power to influence changes in the schoolrooms and in the curricula to reflect a sharia compliant version of Islam. He is a friend of the Aga Khan, the multimillionaire head of the Ismailis, a Shi’ite sect of Islam that today proclaims its nonviolence but in ages past was the sect that gave rise to the Assassins. Perry has concluded at least two cooperation agreements between the state of Texas and the Ismailis, including a comprehensive program to feed children in Texas public schools and taqiyya nonsense about how Islam is a religion of peace. Another agreement stipulates that Texas officials will work with the Ismailis in the “fields of education, health sciences, natural disaster preparedness and recovery, culture and the environment.” Perry let on that this was all about whitewashing Islam’s bloody historical and modern-day record: “traditional Western education speaks little of the influence of Muslim scientists, scholars, throughout history, and for that matter the cultural treasures that stand today in testament to their wisdom.”
It gets worse. Last March, Perry gave a speech in Dallas in the company of Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform. Norquist was close to George W. Bush, and Perry’s anti-tax, anti-Big Government rhetoric sounds like it’s right out of Norquist’s playbook. But there is a dark side to Norquist as well: Norquist’s ties to Islamic supremacists and jihadists have been known for years. He and his Palestinian wife, Samah Alrayyes — who was director of communications for his Islamic Free Market Institute until they married in 2005 — are very active in “Muslim outreach.” Six weeks after 9/11, The New Republic ran an exposé explaining how Norquist arranged for George W. Bush to meet with fifteen Islamic supremacists at the White House on September 26, 2001 — to show how Muslims rejected terrorism.
The only problem was that the ones with Bush didn’t. To Bush’s left sat Dr. Yahya Basha, president of the American Muslim Council, an organization whose leaders have repeatedly called Hamas “freedom fighters.” Also in attendance was Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, who on the afternoon of September 11 told a Los Angeles public radio audience that “we should put the State of Israel on the suspect list.” And sitting right next to President Bush was Muzammil Siddiqi, president of the Hamas-linked Islamic Society of North America, who once told a Muslim crowd chanting pro-Hezbollah slogans that “America has to learn if you remain on the side of injustice, the wrath of God will come.”
It was Norquist who ushered these silver-tongued jihadists into the Oval Office of an incurious president after the worst attack ever on American soil. Yet in December 2003, David Horowitz wrote that Norquist “has formed alliances with prominent Islamic radicals who have ties to the Saudis and to Libya and to Palestine Islamic Jihad, and who are now under indictment by U.S. authorities. Equally troubling is that the arrests of these individuals and their exposure as agents of terrorism have not resulted in noticeable second thoughts on Grover’s part or any meaningful effort to dissociate himself from his unsavory friends.” Nor has Norquist changed course since then.
http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/08/gov-rick-perrys-relationship-with-muslims-may-set-him-apart/
CAIR Houston
“The Muslim community has a significant number of political conservatives, and they do support Perry,” said Mustafaa Carroll, executive director of the Council on American Islamic Relations in Houston, a group that took a position against Perry’s recent Christian-only prayer rally.
**********************************************
THEN they tried to tell me perry had never met norquist, (even though norquist is oneofhis advisors,) and had merely shaken his hand when they just *happened* to be giving a speech at the same event. So I posted this and of course, it was promptly ignored.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/2523682.html
Ethics commission investigates Perry’s Bahamas trip
Associated Press
April 22, 2004, 11:04AM
AUSTIN - The Texas Ethics Commission has told Gov. Rick Perry it will decide whether he illegally converted political money to personal use when he used campaign funds to pay for a trip to the Bahamas.
snip
Also along on the trip at their own expense were San Antonio businessman James Leininger, a supporter of private school vouchers, and his wife Cecilia; Houston beer distributor John Nau and his wife, Bobbi; Grover Norquist, a Washington-based anti-tax activist; and Brooke Rollins, a former Perry aide now director of the Texas Public Policy Foundation, and her husband.
Well, I don’t care about all this krap you posted. I only care about the facts about the BS about the supposed mandate to Islamafy Texas schools when I know for a fact, that the San Antonio and Mansfield school districts backed off those FEDERAL GRANTS because it required the money be used to teach Arabic customs and language to every fifth grader.
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