Bert and Ernie: best buddies in an over-sexualized culture

People from the classic Greek period and after had an almost universal understanding that Achilles and Patroclus were lovers.

You forced me to do some research on this most distasteful of subjects and here's what I found. I realize this article is from Wikipedia, but what it says here makes sense:

Homosexuality in Ancient Greece -- Achilles and Patroclus

But maybe modern scholars can read and understand classic Greek writing and sources better than Plato.

Keep in mind that Plato himself was likely a catamite of Socrates and a pederast as well. Given what we know today about the mania of homosexuals for appropriating their lust onto past generations in search of commonality and approbation, why would it surprise you that Plato and others of his generation would do the same, particularly when it came to heroes like Achilles?

Since you asked. Someone had suggested that J.K. Rowlings Harry Potter hero characters might well be used to convey conservative ideals, loyalty, self reliance, and personal integrity.
Ms. Rowlings apparently felt that she needed to make amends to her liberal friends. She suggested that; although not mentioned in the Harry Potter Novels, she had imagined several of the wizards had been rogering each other before they suffered a severe falling out. The timing and character embellishments were such that most believed that she was betraying her characters to prevent them from being taken captive by the evil right.

Few things surprise me, but we are talking of a semi-mythological figure from ancient Greece, as such a play-write 300 years after Homer are just as authoritative as Homer in ‘making the legend’. Achilles was not a character invented by Homer.

So if there really was an Achilles and Patroclus, which is likely - they may or may not have actually been lovers. But it would not have been uncommon at that time or among the inheritors of their culture and language.

Homer was as far removed from the actual persons (if they were indeed actual persons) as subsequent authors were from him. He may have either played up or played down their status as lovers according to his own proclivities or the reception he wished from his audience. The end result was one that certainly suggested they were a lot closer than just ‘brothers in arms’ - without outright saying they were lovers.

Subsequent writers, like Plato, interpreted Homer's work, and possibly works that didn't survive, to mean that they were definitely lovers.

What is clear to me is that it was not our own “over-sexualized” culture that interprets Achilles and Patroclus as lovers - and as such it was a horrid example.

It may well be a case, as you suggest, that the subsequent Greek ‘over-homosexualized’ culture interpreted these two semi-historic and somewhat mythological figures to be lovers.

But it is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR from the historic record that the homo interpretation is not a modern anachronism.

In fact, the most modern retelling of the story to enter the public consciousness was the movie “Troy” - and lo and behold our “over-sexualized” culture made Patroclus the “cousin” of Achilles.

So far from being a good example of our “over-sexualized” culture emphasizing homosexuality - Achilles and Patroclus are actually contrary examples.

Their possible homosexuality, which was widely accepted in ancient Greece, was absolutely downplayed in our modern mass media culture. I think they saw the ticket sales for “Alexander” and decided their course was clear! ;)

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