Posted on 08/27/2011 10:07:19 AM PDT by fishtank
{sigh}, I'll try again, trying to be clearer:
In every ancient text, whether "Antiochean" or "Alexandrian", the word used in 1 Timothy 6:20 is the same Greek word, transliterated as "gnosis" and translated by King James itself in 28 places as "knowledge".
In only one place, 1 Timothy 6:20, does King James translate "gnosis" as "science" and that is obviously incorrect.
In no sense does the Greek word "gnosis" mean "science".
As Clarke's Commentary explained in detail, "gnosis" in these contexts meant falsely inspired "knowledge" of Hebrew scriptures.
And that's what we're talking about here, not some ancient version of modern science.
By the way, what you are calling "Antiochan line of manuscripts" (post 138), should be spelled "Antiochean", and are better known as the Byzantine text type.
They consist of about 372 complete or nearly complete ancient manuscripts.
While no two ancient texts are identical, word for word, generally the differences are quite small, and in very few cases effect our understandings of original gospel teachings.
And according to this site, there is zero difference in ancient texts, whether Antiochean (Byzantine) or Alexandrian, in 1 Timothy 6:20.
Again, the problem here is that after 28 correct translations of the word "gnosis", King James mistranslated it in 1 Timothy 6:20 as "science".
(1)the KJB translators (check out their qualifications) were more qualified to translate the word gnosis than any English translation committee since their day; they knew what they were doing.
(2) They not only knew more about the Greek word gnosis than any English Bible translation committee since their day, they were led of God to translate it that way.
(3) The need for "consistent translating" --- that is translating the same Greek word with the same English word each time is ridiculous. No literature translation is done in that way. How boring language in general would be if translation was always done that way.
(4) The English word "science" is one legitimate translation of the Greek word gnosis. To spout out that gnosis must always be translated as "knowledge," and NEVER as "science" is . . . well let's just say from an understanding of Greek pathetically inferior to that of the KJB Translators.
(Sigh) The reason for the Holy Spirit leading the KJB Translators to choose the word "science" for the Greek word gnosis is the Holy Spirit's knowledge that from that latter 1800s to the 21st century, the false knowledge that Satan and his wicked dupes would use to corrupt the word of God and destroy men's faith in God's word in these last days would be false scientific knowledge ------ "science falsely so called".
Far from "more qualified."
One difference is that more recent translation groups have vastly more context to work with.
They benefit from all the historical research which has gone into the early Church, and so are better equipped to decide which of various possible renderings is most likely intended.
John Leland 1789: "(2) They not only knew more about the Greek word gnosis than any English Bible translation committee since their day, they were led of God to translate it that way."
Which proves, doesn't it, that God is very forgiving of human error.
Sort of like a parent helping his young child first learn to walk, I'd say.
John Leland 1789: "(3) The need for "consistent translating" --- that is translating the same Greek word with the same English word each time is ridiculous."
Well... I've seen some strange arguments, but that one has to go near the top of the list.
Twenty-eight times King James translates the word gnosis as "knowledge" and only once as "science".
The obvious question is "why", and for that we have no direct answer, but we can note cogently that every other translation renders 1 Timothy 6:20 as "knowledge", not "science".
John Leland 1789: "(4) The English word "science" is one legitimate translation of the Greek word gnosis.
To spout out that gnosis must always be translated as "knowledge," and NEVER as "science" is . . . well let's just say from an understanding of Greek pathetically inferior to that of the KJB Translators. "
"To spout..."?? Pal, I have not accused you of "spouting" though it seems pretty obvious that's what you're doing.
As for the definition of the word gnosis, in fact, it never includes, or ever included the word science.
Here is it's real definition:
And this should be totally obvious if you understand that words which can be translated as science always meant "practical knowledge" -- i.e., how to build a ship, how to navigate across seas, how to build a road or aqueduct, etc. -- that was "science" in those days.
Since practical knowledge (="science") could not possibly have been a theological issue in the early Church, it cannot be what is meant in 1 Timothy 6:20.
All the context shows that what Paul warned Timothy about was the sort of spiritual gnosis = "knowledge" falsely claimed by, guess who?: the gnostics!
John Leland 1789: "The reason for the Holy Spirit leading the KJB Translators to choose the word "science" for the Greek word gnosis is the Holy Spirit's knowledge..."
In other words, you are claiming for the King James translators precisely the kind of spiritual knowledge which Paul warned Timothy against??
And you talk about "spouting"...!
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