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To: dfwgator

I disagree for an odd reason. Pope John Paul II was afflicted, this is true, and likely feeling considerable pain. But “suffering” is an opinion, a reflection of self pity. It can be dispelled if you know that your pain has a righteous purpose, or that your spirit transcends it, and his did.

He was willing to live through his pain to his natural end as an example to others, that pain is just pain, and though it can be debilitating, it is only spiritually exhausting to the point where you want to die, when you let it. When you wallow in it.

Some people so unjustifiably indulge in pain that a paper cut can thrust them into a state of misery, suffering and anguish. They revel in their delicious self pity, feeling persecuted, even martyred, over something truly inconsequential. Even worse they cry out unto heaven to relieve them of their totally voluntary burden.

Truly this is using the Lord’s Name in vanity.

Even to his dying breath, it must have been of satisfaction to John Paul II that his end should convey one last message to the faithful.


23 posted on 08/24/2011 5:45:02 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Pope John is a wonderful example.

but pain is also physiological and what I am saying is we don’t know what kind of pain this man was in...probably not a papercut.

I am always amazed at how people can infer what another human suffers. I certainly have no idea what this man and his family went through. I don’t know if given a terminal illness of years of endless excruciating pain I would be so noble and say “well, pain is just pain.”

I am not so sure that ALL pain can be “dispelled” as long as one knows it has a righteous purpose.

I believe that the church has every right to decide who gets a catholic funeral or gravesite...but I also believe our only goal is to be merciful to this man’s suffering.Who am I to say this man was “eveling in his delicious self pity.”?


29 posted on 08/24/2011 7:19:44 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (where is the Great Santini when we need him??)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; metmom; Dr. Brian Kopp; marshmallow; Judith Anne; Jvette; Mad Dawg
To my mind, the last few years of the Pope's ministry were one of the greatest testimonies of God's grace and how we ought to let HIM (God) take control over our lives.

how many times did one see this one man stumbling along, using the staff that just 20 years earlier he twirled like a baton, using that same staff as a crutch

he was a tired, tired man who, if he just relied on human strength would not have been glad just to get up from bed.

But, I am pretty sure it was the Holy Spirit that was carrying Pope John Paul II, most especially in those last days when this was so visible that the only thing holding that man up was God's power.

As an aside -- for the past couple of weeks I was hiking in the Bieszczady mountains in the south-east of Poland --> JP used to love to hike there

And I realised how tough a guy Karol Wojtyla was -- I'm in pretty good condition, but the hiking routes (szlaki) in Bieszczady are TOUGH, scraggy.

This guy was tough physically and this showed in the early days of his papacy. Yet in the final days when his toughness had disappeared and we saw a tired old man we saw JPII's REAL toughness -- his faith and belief in God and God's power and his letting God do as He willed.

As yefrag said Even to his dying breath, it must have been of satisfaction to John Paul II that his end should convey one last message to the faithful.

34 posted on 08/25/2011 5:06:20 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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