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Kill yourself if you must, but don't make me help
Winnipeg Free Press ^ | 8/6/11 | Tom Oleson

Posted on 08/13/2011 12:33:29 PM PDT by wagglebee

SUICIDE has been legal in Canada since 1972, so it's OK to kill yourself. There is no consequence, except to you. You're not arrested if you succeed or even if you bungle the job -- your life is in your own hands.

But while there is no consequence for you, there are considerable consequences for the family and friends you leave behind and those aftershocks can be emotionally and circumstantially devastating. That is why suicide is hardly ever considered a noble or self-sacrificing act. It is more usually described as the ultimate expression of selfishness, cowardice, carelessness, in the true meaning of that word. G.K. Chesterton likened suicide to spitting in the face of God and suggested people who commit suicide should be buried at crossroads so the world could walk over their graves. Some religions consider it to be the unforgiveable sin, and if they are right, there may be other-worldly consequences even for the person who commits suicide.

But that's neither here nor there. Suicide is more acceptable now than it was in Chesterton's day. It is actually encouraged in some quarters -- and there are lobby groups actively campaigning for the suicidal right to allow somebody else to kill them or, more bizarrely, for the right to help other people kill themselves. Somehow, they seem to think it is covered by the Constitution.

Two such cases are now before the courts in British Columbia. In the first, Gloria Taylor, a woman suffering from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or Lou Gehrig's Disease, as it is more commonly known, asked a B.C. court for a speedy decision of her plea to be permitted a physician-assisted suicide, which is currently illegal, on the grounds that if it were not decided quickly, she might die before a doctor could kill her.

The federal government argued that the issue is too complicated for a case to be prepared in a matter of weeks, but the trial judge ruled differently. "I am satisfied time is urgent," said Justice Lynn Smith in scheduling the case for Nov. 15, ignoring the fact assisted suicide is one of the most emotional and complicated ethical issues facing Canadians today and one that should not be disposed of for one woman's convenience.

Ms Taylor, after all, has a legal right to kill herself without forcing the rest of us to be complicit in the act.

The second case involves the Farewell Foundation for the Right to Die, whose 117 members have petitioned the same B.C. court to rule on the constitutional right to assisted suicide. The group -- one could perhaps call it the Canadian Kevorkian Society in honour of the American doctor who so eagerly sought suicides to assist that he ended up in jail -- is first seeking recognition as a legal organization, which is complicated by the fact that it is acting in favour of an illegal activity. Many of its members are in good health and not immediately seeking suicide, but several have chosen the honourable route and killed themselves.

That is the paradox of assisted suicide. Killing oneself is the ultimate act of isolation, yet those who belong to groups such as the Farewell Foundation do not want to do it alone. They want the rest of Canadians, regardless of what moral scruples they may have about suicide, to join them as accomplices in their act by giving it a social sanction. That is truly cowardly and worthy of a burial at a crossroads.


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assistedsuicide; euthanasia; moralabsolutes; prolife
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Pardon the typo. That should say Ferengi.


41 posted on 08/14/2011 11:28:22 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: TheOldLady

“If you had been forthcoming and clear with your answer, wagglebee would not be asking you again and again.”

No, if people would read things for themselves instead of relying on the unreliable to misrepresent what someone posts, everyone would be better off.

So are we friends now?


42 posted on 08/14/2011 11:28:44 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: BykrBayb

I accept this apology too. That makes 4.


43 posted on 08/14/2011 11:30:18 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer; TheOldLady
Am I correct: You can find no single post...

Words mean things.

TheOldLady, it's pointless to debate with this Ferengi. He's incapable of any of the basic necessities of a rational conversation. He can't be honest, intelligent or respectful. He's been practicing this for years. His only purpose is to be a troll. You can reason with that.

44 posted on 08/14/2011 11:33:22 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: RFEngineer

I accept your confession that you have engaged in the killing you support.


45 posted on 08/14/2011 11:34:35 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: RFEngineer; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Why not? Because you don’t like me, or because I ask reasonable questions that infuriate you for some reason?

You must be kidding if you can't understand why I wouldn't accept the moral authority of a person who will not affirm the right to life.

Why would you assume I wasn’t of the same mind as you on the issue of assisted suicide? Did I say anything that remotely supported it?

Because those who believe in life NEVER have a problem affirming it.

Now, do you think morphine-assisted killing is just a matter for the courts?

Reading comprehension must not be your strong suit, I've made it very clear that I oppose all forms of euthanasia and assisted suicide.

46 posted on 08/14/2011 11:34:44 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb

“Words mean things. “

Be honest. You said some blatantly incorrect things about me on this thread. I asked for examples and you were unable to provide.

So what did your words mean?


47 posted on 08/14/2011 11:36:01 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: wagglebee

“You must be kidding if you can’t understand why I wouldn’t accept the moral authority of a person who will not affirm the right to life.”

Are you asserting, untruthfully, that I am this person?

You made the assumption, not me. Shame on you.


48 posted on 08/14/2011 11:38:38 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

I haven’t said anything incorrect about you. I identified the proof of what I said. You are dishonest, and you think that makes you clever. It doesn’t.


49 posted on 08/14/2011 11:41:34 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: RFEngineer; wagglebee
Shame on you.

Yes Wagglebee. How dare you recognize the truth? How dare you speak the truth? And worst of all, how dare you outsmart the troll?

50 posted on 08/14/2011 11:43:37 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: RFEngineer; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Are you asserting, untruthfully, that I am this person?

1. Do you believe that assisted suicide should be allowed? YES or NO.

2. Do you believe euthanasia should be allowed? YES or NO.

3. Do you believe that all innocent persons have the right to life from the moment of conception until the moment of natural death? YES or NO.

I am only interested in YES or NO answers, someone who is pro-life DOES NOT need to give an explanation, just yes or no answers.

51 posted on 08/14/2011 11:44:22 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb

Oh, is he still talking to me? I mashed my “IGNORE” button after that last bit of nonsensical blather and left the thread.

Have you hit abuse and polled the mods about him before now, and he’s been let slide? If so, that’s weird because if he’s not a troll, I’m not old. If you haven’t narked on him, you should, IMO.

His behavior is classic troll, as if they all go to the same leftist school.


52 posted on 08/14/2011 11:47:14 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: RFEngineer

Your so-called pointing out flaws in my arguments are nothing but a feeble attempt at obfuscating. I’ve expressed my position with clarity.

Your position, OTOH< is as clear as mud.


53 posted on 08/14/2011 11:47:28 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: TheOldLady

And I already explained my position to him, sheesh!


54 posted on 08/14/2011 11:48:42 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: RFEngineer
What do you think of Morphine-Assisted Killing?

Killing people with morphine, guns, ropes, knives, bombs, strangling them or any method is murder.

What is you opinion?

Oh, and murder is a matter for cops and courts. WHat do you think?

55 posted on 08/14/2011 11:50:37 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah; TheOldLady; BykrBayb; metmom
And I already explained my position to him, sheesh!

Hell, EVERY anti-FReeper leftist site on the internet knows why MY position is!

56 posted on 08/14/2011 11:52:02 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: RFEngineer; BykrBayb; TheOldLady; wagglebee

Another tactic of trolls is to make the topic All About Me. That is precisely what FREngineer is doing. Focus the debate around Him and What He Says Or Isn’t Saying.

So self centered and puerile. Reminds me of selfish little brats who always want to be the center of attention and misbehave to get it. And then lie and point fingers at the kids who weren’t misbehaving.


57 posted on 08/14/2011 11:55:34 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: wagglebee; RFEngineer

I want to know the answers as well:

1. Do you believe that assisted suicide should be allowed? YES or NO.

2. Do you believe euthanasia should be allowed? YES or NO.

3. Do you believe that all innocent persons have the right to life from the moment of conception until the moment of natural death? YES or NO.

I am only interested in YES or NO answers, someone who is pro-life DOES NOT need to give an explanation, just yes or no answers.


58 posted on 08/14/2011 11:57:48 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: wagglebee; little jeremiah; BykrBayb; metmom
Thus my insistence that this person is a troll. A big part of trollish behavior is to pretend not to grasp the arguments of the other side because "they aren't being clear."

That makes us try to explain, and the trolls dance and laugh.

The ozone smell is getting strong in here.

If you can't get a troll removed, the next best thing is to go about your business as if it weren't there. Mashing that "IGNORE" button works remarkably well.

It's virtual shunning, which has worked for millennia.

But I, of course, personally prefer a nice ZOT.
59 posted on 08/14/2011 12:04:20 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: wagglebee

My answers do not differ from yours. Why would you assume differently?


60 posted on 08/14/2011 12:05:10 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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