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To: AustinBill
In pre-reformation Christianity the Church and State were essentially one (same as it true for Islam today)

That's not true.

In pre-reformation Christianity there were two centres of power -- Church and State and they fought each other. Read up on the Guelphs versus the Ghibellines

Also note that in Western europe the Church was separated from the secular authorities by the fall of Rome in the 400s. Then there were Goths, Lombards, Franks etc. Once the Pope was even carried off to Avignon and the centre was moved there.

So, there was a separation of Church and state -- not as much as today, which one can argue has gone too much the other way, witness "gay marriage" etc.

In the case of Islam too there is a separation of Mosque and state ever since the fall of the Caliphate. the Caliph embodied secular and spiritual power in one person that was never in the christian world

Since the fall of the Caliphate in 1918, only in Iran has there been a merging.

In Saudi Arabia the Sauds are deeply tied in with the Wahabs and probably close to that merge but not completely.

In the case of other Moslem states it is not merged to the extent that they are one and the same.

76 posted on 08/02/2011 8:00:52 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

Sorry Cronos if I misunderstand your post. Some info:

>>>”Since the fall of the Caliphate in 1918, only in Iran has there been a merging.”<<<

Which Caliphate & Iran? Since Moslem invasion of Iran in the 7th century AD, Islam & State have been intertwined, continually.

>>>”In Saudi Arabia the Sauds are deeply tied in with the Wahabs and probably close to that merge but not completely.”<<<

“Saudi” Arabia, House of Saud, officially came into existence in 1932, with the help of the British, and as a result of an amalgamation between 2 Arabian tribes or kingdoms being Hejaz & Najd (Nejad). Before (during Ottoman Empire rule), and after, Arabia or Saudi Arabia has always been the cradle of Islam. Islam & State have Never been separated. No matter who ruled Arabia. Regardless of House of Saud (Salafis or Wahhabis).

>>>>”In the case of other Moslem states it is not merged to the extent that they are one and the same.”<<<<

Which Moslem countries?

Most Moslem countries I can think of have had Islam & State *very much* merged for centuries since Islamic invasion. (Turkey has been an exception since Ataturk). Unless you are referring to some colonial British or French influences & a few respective laws incorporated in countries such as Tunisia, Algeria, and other artificially created countries/borders such as Syria & Jordan. Regardless, a few British & French influenced laws, ultimately, mean not much at all in mentioned moslem countries.


113 posted on 08/03/2011 11:16:20 AM PDT by odds
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