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I'll be very honest here...amnd I'll probably get flamed for it.

I honestly do NOT feel the debt ceiling is the place for this disussion. I honestly feel they should just raise the debt ceiling apart from any budget ties.

This is a budget issue and it needs to be fought as such. They screwed up when they didn't stick to their guns on the 2011 budget. They should have base-lined the 2011 budget against 2008...and the American People would have supported them...but they went wobbly.

Another tactic would be to pass the democratic budget in 2011 (and pund it home that they should have done it)...raise the debt ceiling...and THEN baseline teh 2012 budget on 2008 lines.

But THIS approach? This is cutting off our nose to spite our face. The ENTIRE GOP looks weak. If they wanted CCB...they should ahve passed it...said this is it...and walked away...then took teh case to the American people.

If we try to go down this road...we will lose politically.

I disagree. It is the place for this discussion because the debt - and its legal ceiling are the direct result of unchecked spending far and above the revenue the government receives.....it is not a perfunctory formalization to pay debts we alreay owe; it is an admission that we are about to and will again commit to MORE DEBT! Refusing to raise the debt limit then forces the government to live within its means.

If that means that a few, or several agencies have to go out of existence, then so be it. If it means that some of the 40% of the people in this country who don't pay taxes have to, then so be it. If it forces a large portion of the people on EBT, EITC, AFDC, WICs, SCHIP and the hundreds of other supplements to go out and work, then so be it....