Posted on 07/16/2011 9:18:40 PM PDT by LibWhacker
Aatish Taseer, the son of an assassinated Pakistani leader, explains the history and hysteria behind a deadly relationship
Ten days before he was assassinated in January, my father, Salman Taseer, sent out a tweet about an Indian rocket that had come down over the Bay of Bengal: "Why does India make fools of themselves messing in space technology? Stick 2 bollywood my advice."
My father was the governor of Punjab, Pakistan's largest province, and his tweet, with its taunt at India's misfortune, would have delighted his many thousands of followers. It fed straight into Pakistan's unhealthy obsession with India, the country from which it was carved in 1947.
Though my father's attitude went down well in Pakistan, it had caused considerable tension between us. I am half-Indian, raised in Delhi by my Indian mother: India is a country that I consider my own. When my father was killed by one of his own bodyguards for defending a Christian woman accused of blasphemy, we had not spoken for three years.
To understand the Pakistani obsession with India, to get a sense of its special edge—its hysteria—it is necessary to understand the rejection of India, its culture and past, that lies at the heart of the idea of Pakistan. This is not merely an academic question. Pakistan's animus toward India is the cause of both its unwillingness to fight Islamic extremism and its active complicity in undermining the aims of its ostensible ally, the United States.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
And, by the way...
A lot of the so-called “Christian” missionaries in India are nothing but front groups for the Maoists.
And just like in this country, where we have “Christian” churches that are openly supporting faggot marriage, you should be careful to accept any notion that because someone slaps a “Christian” label on some new evil that we should all bow down before such nonsense.
Posts like your have given the Christians the reputation of being religious whacks. This article isn’t about what religious is superior.And whether you like it or not there will always be vast diversity of religions and belief systems in the world and that is a good thing.
And regardless of what you believe India already has religious freedom. And fact will all the religious freedom is Christianity is actually falling apart in US and Europe, Islam is the fast growing religion in these two places. Religious freedom is a two edged sword.
“Christianity has failed in much of Europe.”
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
State-sponsored religion. By the same token, mosques in Iran are almost empty. The dictatorship of the mullahs has killed religion there. If Islam throughout the Middle East lost it’s government support you’d be amazed at how quickly this proselytizing, conquering force would become a footnote to history.
It was their decision to reject Christ or not, just as it was the Muslim countries, which they do at their own peril.
They are all in the same boat in that regard, in that Christ will reject *them* when He returns.
Good post. Pakistan is dominated by the military that allows serving officers to work in private business and over 35,000 do so. The PakMil owns most of the golf courses and polo and cricket fields in Pakistan and is thew largest landholder in the country. The PakMil sits on every board of directors of any consequence of every business.
That is why Pakistan is a failed state, capitalism with a ruling class. China had a freer economy. They will always be a breeding ground for chaos and discontent, of training camps for every muslim hate group in the world.
They didn't abolish the religion...they abolished criminal acts.
That's like saying that abolishing polygamy in Mormonism equates to abolishing Mormonism. Not so.
Actually, the British succeeding in ending Muslim dominance of the Indian sub-continent when they took over.
So much that in the end those elements of Islam hightailed it to Pakistan.
The Thuggist cult was completely abolished. Satee, while just a practice of Hinduism, was abolished. As you say, that was not the abolition of Hinduism, but it was the abolition of freedom of religion, in that people could not practice that part of their religion that the English disapproved of; i.e., criminal acts. Abolishing polygamy doesn’t abolish Mormonism, but it does outlaw an act sanctioned by Mormonism, so it is an assault on freedom of religion. So is the San Francisco circumcision ban, and the European shechita ban. Sometimes, freedom of religion doesn’t trump all other considerations, and we can argue over where and when and what.
But the bottom line is, British rule in India outlawed certain religious practices. The British did good. It is bad to strangle people and steal their money. It is bad to burn your wife alive.
It is also bad to wage holy wars to achieve world domination and convert everyone by the sword. That should definitely be outlawed. Whatever’s left of Islam if that practice is effectively suppressed is their lookout. If their faith falls apart once it’s restricted to doing the hokey poky towards Mecca, not eating pig meat, circumcising 13-year-olds, etc., then fine. But we do not have to tolerate attempts at world domination and/or genocide.
Calculating from the figures in the World Almanac 2011, the figures are approximately (in millions):
Indonesia 209
Pakistan 178
India 153
Bangladesh 130
I stand corrected, thanx.
The paki’s are Moslim.
Nuke’ em, along with the rest of the MadMo crowd which still believes America to be the Great Satan because we are individual citizens, free citizens.
Moslims are, by definition, slaves of Allah. As slaves, they resent the free. Add in MadMo’s commands to kill all unbelievers and one realizes Moslims, and Moslim nations, are antithetical to America and are irreconcilable with America.
Therefore, because of what Islam is, and what Moslims do, we will have to eliminate Islam before it tries to eliminate us.
In effect, Islam is its own death warrant.
It is not Christianity which has failed, but the European people, in thrall to materialistism and socialism. Meanwhile, the Gospel spreads in East Asia, Africa, and elsewhere. “For the last shall be first, and the first last.””
Which would you say would be the most important, belief or behavior?
This is a pigheaded article stemming from an inferiority complex that afflicts this author & Pakistan when India comes up. The author’s logic is in a funk. India couldn’t care less about Pakistan for so long as it stops sending trained murdering thugs across the border. Now, in response to some statements in the article...“PAKISTAN – A POET’S UTOPIA”? LOL, it’s more like hallucination, a Taliban’s utopia, for it did the deed of recognizing the Taliban. Among others, this strategic blunder is also the bane of its existence. Pakistan was a nightmare since its flawed conception, fusing the silly idea of religion & state, feeding its majority on anti-India rhetoric that has defined its collective consciousness. Throughout its tattered existence it has survived on crumbs from the US, who always kept it like a whore it is; poor & starving. On other statements - [A] “WHY DOES INDIA MAKE FOOLS...2 BOLLYWOOD MY ADVICE.”. This is an illogical point; so uneducated. Only the sophisticated realize that space programs are highly complex operations with high probability for failures. Get it? BTW some of the biggest lovers of Bollywood lie in Pak. Who would’ve thought this might happen, certainly not that poet! Re: space program, even US and Russia have had their failures but have great programs. Given India’s paucity of resources and horrible bureaucracy, it has done a nice job in space, even launching satellites for the US and Israel. This is what Pakistan and its poets should be dreaming of -science &tech for a prosperous future! [B] “THOUGH HE WAS ALWAYS VAGUE …. PLURALISTIC SOCIETY OF INDIA, WITH ITS..CULTURE”. Seems more like the random musings of the clueless, but then he was just a poet. It takes guts, vision, intelligence (not the Pakistani ISI), higher philosophy, knowledge, & other attributes to make a nation. As Kissinger said, India is one of the few democracies in the post-colonial world. India’s forefathers knew the opportunities & challenges. Pluralism is its strength and it has made India a strong democracy, despite its flaws. The corollary is also true; Pakistan’s diversity is its cancer & demise, NOT INDIA. Listen to Musharraf’s and Zardari’s comments which imply that India is not Pak’s main problem. Eat crow guys! Anti-India rhetoric is gleefully gulped like intoxicating brew in Pak thus producing delusions of grandeur conjured by poets, idiots and what not. [C.] - “THE ARMY’S … RUNNING OF A LUCRATIVE TRADE IN NUCLEAR SECRETS.” But of course, where else would you find bin Laden? The swine is never far from the sewer and its own kind; the Pak army. It is here you will find bin Laden, in Pak, close to the Pak army. The army needed the humiliation. It lost its underwear, got naked and raped! Act 2 might just follow with other Al Qaeda rats. More Operation Geronimos please.
[D] “THE REVERSAL IN THE FORTUNES ……A CULTURE THAT PAKISTANIS, VIA BOLLYWOOD, EXPERIENCE DAILY IN THEIR HOMES”. This is no reversal of fortunes, but in the collective will of India, whose people place an importance on education, science, IT, etc that make countries great. India is a coveted market for business powerhouses not to mention companies selling tech for nuclear power generation. Try that in Pak, Haha! Finally [E] – “THIS RAGE IS WHAT MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO REDUCE….SHOULD PROVOKE NO TRIUMPHALISM IN INDIA ….THERE IS ARID PAIN AND SADNESS.” -Grow up and get over it like how 1947 is fading in India’s rear view mirror, so are its wounds. Hurt festers in the minds and bodies of the weak, who have no pride and but lots of mediocrity. This statement is the author’s vain attempt at a face saving gesture. The humiliation, insult and pain are all too obvious. There’s absolutely no merit in this statement. India should celebrate as it wants; with triumph& pride. No apologies here. Pakistan would have been much better off under Indian leadership. And Taseer should stop writing such balderdash! He gets away by denigrating India/Indians because of superior Indian values of free press. Try this trick in inferior Pak, and he will have to bolt like a petrified hog trying to save its life. Author needs therapy and a new profession.
Very interesting.
excellent article. But not explanatory enough
India HAS religious freedom -- freedom to practise and to preach/convert (* NOTE below).
Christians in Bombay, Goa, Tamil Nadu (large Catholic minorities from 34% in Goa to about 5% in TN), Kerala (large Catholic/Syriac/Orthodox/Protestant minorities -- 30%+ of the population, Mizoram/Nagaland (99% Christian), Arunachal Pradesh, Tripura (Christian majorities), Meghalaya etc with large Christian minorities
In all of the states where Christians are a sizable population, Christians have been living there for hundreds or even thousands (as in the case of Kerala since St. Thomas the Apostle came) of years. They have places of worship, teaching, etc. and are not only unmolested but are an integral part of society
In the places where they are 1% or less of the population they are still accepted as part of society and not persecuted.
The cases of persecution were in Orissa and in Karnataka -- different reasons for each. In Orissa this was a mix of caste, class, politics and religion -- India has a kind of affirmative action, only its more extensive -- instead of 1/2 categories it has dozens of different% of reservations. The lowest caste get some (as Scheduled Caste), the tribals who are not part of the caste system get some (as Scheduled Tribes), the other backward castes (50% of the population) get some (as OBC category), etc. etc.
In Orissa the lowest caste mostly converted to become Christian. But the problem is that Hindu right-wing politicians who are also anti-lower caste and anti-Affirmative Action said "if they are Christian they can't claim lower caste reservation" and also the Christian lower-castes were actually getting better educated (thanks to Christian missionaries) than even upper caste folks. So some Christians reclassified themselves as Scheduled TRIBals
This caused conflict with the Tribals who btw were not even Hindu but animist. This was a perfect situation for the Hindu right-wing party to politicize to get votes (it shares power in that state with a regional party).
PLUS, add to the mix, a STRONG MARXIST/MAOIST movement. These Maoists were the ones who killed a Hindu religious/political leader which triggered off the violence
The state government is to be blamed for not acting fast enough, but like most other state governments in India they are incompetent. Only when the National federal government took action did the state move faster.
In the case of Karnataka it is politics mixed with sheer stupidity on the part of some born-again groups. The state is ruled by the hindu-right wing party. The Christians have lived there (in South Canara, Mangalore) for centuries peacefully, intermarried, been part of the local landscape and are part of the society there.
The Born-again groups there printed and distributed pamphlets calling hindu gods and goddesses as demons. Now, you can suggest this, but if you preach or distribute pamphlets like this, guess what, there will be violence in return.
---------------------------------------------------------
Also the hindu right-wing group is trying to say that there are forced conversions to Christianity (which no one, not even hindus believe) or conversions due to money (which some hindus believe -- even moderate ones -- and which are possible, but these are people who bluntly will change back tomorrow if given a gift. They are not true conversions) and tried to make laws. But the problem is that it's difficult to prove the latter and it goes against India's secular, respect-for-all-religions constitution.
In contrast, Pakistan is constitutionally defined as an Islamic state run by shariah, where any form of "blasphemy" (such as saying a man is also God) is punishable by death. There is no comparison
t in an atmosphere of freedom, nothing can resist the Gospel of Jesus Christ. -- we Christians would like to think so, but its not completely true -- look at the US for example, there are many non-Christians here. People who are seeking God are few in most countries -- many are just content to carry on.
Post of the day! Welcome to FR.
The Gospel spreads in East Asia -- in China, S. Korea, but in China Buddhism and Islam too are spreading, at a lower rate, but still spreading. In Japan, the people are Shinto, Christian, Buddhist etc. they are basically athiestic -- Shinto for birth, Christian for the wedding and Buddhist for death...
In Africa Islam too is spreading just as quickly...
Nah, I’d reserve the nukes for Mecca and Medinah. I’d prefer the SEALS to decapacitate Pak’s nukes or destroy them and then dismantle the country — create an independent state of Baluchistan that will cause problems with Iran (since Iran has a large province of Sistan-e-Balochi which has ethnic Baluchis right next door) and let the North-west frontier province return to Afghanistan. Separate Punjab and Sindh as independent countries and give Kashmir back to india.
What exactly do you KNOW of India? And how?
Seriously dude, visit it for once -- go to Kerala, Bombay, Goa, Sikkim and you'll see vibrant Christian communities that not only worship as they have for centuries (or nearly 2000 years as in the case of Kerala), but also spread the good news and are tightly integrated in society.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.