Posted on 07/15/2011 11:30:51 AM PDT by CalinectesSapidus
>>Well, West Virginia is a special case since Virginia was in open rebellion against the United States at the time and depending on your point of view, was part of a foreign nation and was not subject to the Constitution of the United States. Under those circumstances, the Congress didn’t need the permission of some foreign nation’s legislature. <<
The flaw in your argument is that the Yankee government NEVER recognized the Confederacy as a separate nation. WV was created out of VA’s sovereign territory; which violated the Constitution. But then, Presidents from IL seem to have a problem with understanding and upholding the Constitution.
Mere technicalities. The way to secede is like South Carolina did.
If north Dakota can do this, then I propose all those Midwestern states all the way down to Texas form a new country. They can call it Ameristine.
Been there did that got frostbite an trenchfoot all in same day.... Strategic Air Command...SAC trained killer, frozen till needed.
Why not Minot .....not !
Way past stompin snow snakes an such....:o)
Stay safe !
In other words, State officials who don't take the oath are simply in violation of the law. That doesn't make their state a Territory. It's ridiculous. He was not taken seriously by anybody because he's not a serious person.
Yeah. That worked out well.
Yes. Barry Goldwater settled that question 50 years ago.
short answer is no, the weapons are subject to US jurisiction and under the terms of the SALT treaties
would not be able to be transferred to another country.
I’ve always hoped North and South Dakota would set aside their differences and join up to become just Dakota
Right. That’s why I wrote “depending on your point of view.” And that is the flaw. But at the time there was nobody to object but a legislature in rebellion. And they had other things to worry about than the population beyond the mountains. They made their move the the US took advantage. Were I in the government at the time, I probably wouldn’t have bothered checking in with Virginia’s legislature either.
From Wiki:
Ukraine had 220 strategic weapon carriers on its territory, including 130 RS-18 (SS- 19), 46 sophisticated RS-22 missiles, and 44 strategic bombers carrying 1,068 long-range cruise missiles. In November 1993, the Ukrainian parliament adopted a resolution On the Ratification of the Treaty Between the USSR and USA On the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Weapons of June 7, 1991 and the Protocol to the Treaty of May 23, 1992. The next stage was the signing on January 14, 1994 of the Trilateral Statement by the Presidents of Ukraine, Russia, and the United States under which Ukraine was to destroy all nuclear weapons on its territory, including strategic offensive weapons.
Ukraine, Washington and Moscow reached an agreement in January that allowed for the dismantling of Ukraine's 176 Intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBMs) ahead of Kiev's formal ratification of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). France and China provided unilateral security assurances in the form of diplomatic notes. The missiles—130 SS-19's and 46 SS-24's—carried about 1,800 nuclear warheads altogether.
Before voting on accession, Ukraine demanded from Russia, the USA, France and the United Kingdom a written statement that these powers undertook to extend the security guarantees to Ukraine. Instead security assurances to Ukraine (Ukraine published the documents as guarantees given to Ukraine[3]) where given on 5 December 1994 at a formal ceremony in Budapest (known as the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances[4]), may be summarized as follows: Russia, the UK and the USA undertake to respect Ukraine's borders in accordance with the principles of the 1975 CSCE Final Act, to abstain from the use or threat of force against Ukraine, to support Ukraine where an attempt is made to place pressure on it by economic coercion, and to bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council.
Ukraine was scheduled to submit its instruments of accession to the NPT as a non-nuclear state and formally enter into START at the OSCE summit in Budapest in December 1994. The Rada resolution on accession to the NPT, however, was ambiguous as to whether Ukraine was acceding as a nuclear or non-nuclear state, which was unacceptable to the Russians. The compromise reached after intense negotiations was to attach a diplomatic note from the Ukrainian president to the Rada resolution stipulating that Ukraine was acceding as a non-nuclear state.
The "Yankee" government was the government of the United States of America. Not even Jefferson Davis disputed that claim.
NEVER recognized the Confederacy as a separate nation.
NO COUNTRY ON EARTH recognized the "Confederacy" as a separate nation.
WV was created out of VA’s sovereign territory; which violated the Constitution.
This is your opinion, but it is not the opinion of the people of West Virginia, or the Supreme Court of the United States. Article IV Section 3 makes clear that new states may be formed from existing States by acts of their legislature. The legislature of Virginia declared itself void by its act of secession. The Wheeling Convention was therefore legitimate to represent the people of Virginia. It did so, and announced the formation of a new State in compliance with Article IV Section 3. The Supreme Court upheld this decision, and the admisssion of West Virginia was ratified by Congress.
The theory that the Constitution was a compact among States which retained their rights to remove themselves from it was settled when the various armies in rebellion surrendered. You can refight that war if you wish, but that won't change the historical outcome, nor invalidate decisions of the Supreme Court, nor acts of Congress.
“That means every vote the North Dakota Senators ever voted on is void!”
No, but maybe everything one or both of them voted on that passed by a single or a couple votes.
“depending on your point of view, was part of a foreign nation and was not subject to the Constitution of the United States”
The point of view of the U.S. government was and is that it was a state all along. That’s why they were fighting a war with it, duh.
“The way to secede is like South Carolina did”
You mean by giving a much larger and more sophisticated entity an excuse to crush you?
If you are going to secede secede. Otherwise stand and deliver. I am starting to study the Constitution. There is no reason to secede and every reason not to when you begin to understand it.
The Dakota Territory was an organized, incorporated territory. This means it was a fully integrated part of the national territory of the United States. All provisions of the Constitution fully applied there. Every person born there was a natural born citizen, except Indians.
Until the Constitutionally questionable Insular Cases, in the early 20th Century, there was never a question that the residents of all territories were fully defined as citizens just as were the citizens of each State.
The insular cases created the constitutionally questionable distinction between incorporated territory and unincorporated possessions.
It was a poor attempt at a joke. :)
But, I do appreciate you taking the time to share more information about citizenship with me.
No, a technical irregularity will not void a states admission, it did not for Ohio in 1953, it will not for North Dakota in 2011.
Every act by North Dakota’s government and Congressional delegation is fully lawful. One missing word cannot void the clear will of the Congress and the people of North Dakota.
I kinda got the joke, but I’ve seen people (not on this forum) try to argue that territorial residents and even Washington, DC residents were not citizens, when that clearly was not the founders intent.
Don’t even get me started on the insular cases...
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