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To: Colofornian

David and Solomon were both polygamists. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think polygamy makes sense given the way social benefits go nowadays, but David’s real sin was conspiracy to murder someone to get a woman who was already married to him. He had plural wives at that time, that is why Nathan told him the Ewe lamb allegory, why couldn’t he be satisfied with the wives that he had instead of kill a man to get his wife? Additionally Solomon was super-polygamous, but was wrong for marrying polytheist wives and practicing their religion with them. Jacob had two wives (Leah and Rachel) and two concubines. No need to try and get a little revisionist with what goes on here. Not all these people in the Bible who practiced polygamy were bad, and often it wasn’t just the polygamy that made them bad at the same time. Stuff happens, I think living in the ancient world, and the conditions back then made polygamy more permissible. Today, it’s easier to do half a dozen other things than to practice polygamy; it’s really impractical unless you are a pretty rich guy, or don’t mind the child custody legal standings associated with marriage.


78 posted on 07/13/2011 1:28:20 PM PDT by Morpheus2009
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To: Morpheus2009
Jacob had two wives (Leah and Rachel) and two concubines. No need to try and get a little revisionist with what goes on here.

Jacob was deceived into practicing polygamy. I don't think you'd elevate Jacob & his wives as the "all-star poster boy" foundation for polygamy, would you? Especially as the "foundation" for that was anything but God's truth ('twas deception).

Additionally Solomon was super-polygamous, but was wrong for marrying polytheist wives and practicing their religion with them.

Solomon was warned by God's Word as to what would happen if he did that. Solomon had ample access to read Deut. 17:17, did he not?

17 He MUST NOT take many wives, or his heart will be led astray.

What happened then to Solomon?

God judges him for this, and then takes away part of his kingdom (1 Kings 11:9-11). Sure, Solomon was as wise as they come...up until he did this. (We've all seen gifted men of God who don't finish strong)

And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and HIS WIVES TURNED AWAY HIS HEART. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father....And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. (1 Kings 11:3-4, 9-11)

***

...David’s real sin was conspiracy to murder someone to get a woman who was already married to him. He had plural wives at that time, that is why Nathan told him the Ewe lamb allegory, why couldn’t he be satisfied with the wives that he had instead of kill a man to get his wife?

David's "real" sin?

Come now, just because a manslaughterer steals somebody else's wife doesn't absolutely negate their "lower" sins.

And, yes, David was a polygamist, but not necessarily with the women you've mentioned in the Nathan incident. The women involved were technically "concubines" that David inherited when he took over the kingdom.

Yeah, I know 2 Sam. 12:8-11 references them as "wives" -- but this word is also the same Hebrew word that references "female" animals that Noah took into his ship -- and I highly doubt these animals were married to the male animals.

(a) There's no mention anywhere that David slept with them; obviously, if you're a king who has inherited concubines, that would have been the right of the king.
(b) Their purpose in the palace was id'd as palace caretakers: "he left to take care of the palace" (2 Sam. 16:21)
(c) We have no record of children born from these woman;
(d) When David's son sleeps with them openly on the roof there's no record of David reacting like a jealous husband -- nor is there a moral twist given -- like the apostle Paul does to the Corinthian church...where in that case a man was sleeping with his father's wife. The way Abasalom is presented with openly sleeping with these women is not as one sleeping with his "stepmoms." These women are TWICE referenced there as "concubines."

This is why we need to read carefully. And if you read 2 Sam. carefully, you'll see the following prophesy by Nathan in 2 Sam. 12:11-12:

"Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.’”

Now, Morpheus, when did this prophesy become fulfilled?

Answer: 2 Sam. 16: 20 Absalom said to Ahithophel, “Give us your advice. What should we do?” 21 Ahithophel answered, “Sleep with your father’s CONCUBINES whom he left to take care of the palace. Then all Israel will hear that you have made yourself obnoxious to your father, and the hands of everyone with you will be more resolute.” 22 So they pitched a tent for Absalom on the roof, and he slept with his father’s CONCUBINES in the sight of all Israel. (vv. 20-21)

Some of David's REAL wives (not just concubines) died or were removed from him (like Michal)...we are not certain how many were simultaneous to each other. But we can probably assume he was indeed a polygamist at some points of his life.

80 posted on 07/13/2011 2:46:01 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mormon mishies should ask propects to pray about Smith's 'first vision,' NOT the word-lifted BoM!)
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To: Morpheus2009
Not all these people in the Bible who practiced polygamy were bad, and often it wasn’t just the polygamy that made them bad at the same time.

But all were sinners. The Bible doesn't attempt to portray David as "good" (vs. "bad"). Instead, it presents David as a man who was whole-hearted (even if not whole-actioned) toward God -- and that especially included David's prayer-and-worship life; and was a man who meshed with God's purposes.

And yes, Jesus says it's not the outside of you that makes you unclean, but what comes out of our hearts.

Men are oft' abnormally overabsorbed with the externals. God looks at us from the inside-out. Are we, as Jesus accused the legalists of being, whitewashed tombstones? (Dead on the inside; bright & white on the outside) Or, are we lukewarm where our external deeds don't match the presence of the Holy Spirit on the inside?

81 posted on 07/13/2011 3:08:45 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mormon mishies should ask propects to pray about Smith's 'first vision,' NOT the word-lifted BoM!)
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