Posted on 06/24/2011 11:36:30 PM PDT by John W
WASHINGTON — A yearlong experiment with America's electric grid could mess up traffic lights, security systems and some computers — and make plug-in clocks and appliances like programmable coffeemakers run up to 20 minutes fast.
The group that oversees the U.S. power grid is proposing an experiment that would allow more frequency variation than it does now without corrections, according to a company presentation obtained by The Associated Press.
Officials say they want to try this to make the power supply more reliable, save money and reduce what may be needless efforts. The test is tentatively set to start in mid-July, but that could change.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Almost the entire load base will increase its power consumption if the line voltage increases. The only exceptions are (1) those loads with automatic voltage regulators based on magnetic principles, and (2) those loads powered by switching power supplies. Interestingly, in these two classes of loads, the current consumption goes down with increasing voltage, holding the power consumption nearly constant. The power companies would love it if all their loads were this way, but that will never be.
The vast majority of the load base would respond to increased line voltage with increased power draw and decreased life.
The only way they can do that without changing the infrastucture is to run their alternators at a higher speed, which up’s the line frequency. This doesn’t affect most electronic devices because they use various DC power supplies, along with internal timebases.
Upping the line frequency does not have any direct effect on either the line voltage or the power consumption of the loads on that line, as long as it is kept within limits, say (for North America) 57 to 63 Hz.
It is true that with the advent of computerized everything, fewer and fewer line-powered devices depend on an exact frequency or voltage these days. Electronic appliances (or their power supplies) often work from 100 to 240 VAC and from 47 to 63 Hz, so if they have any need for a time base, they get off an internal crystal oscillator, or a WWV or GPS receiver.
But I should emphasize that TVs, computers, and smartphones are still a small fraction of the entire demand. Think motors and furnaces in steel mills, and HVAC loads everywhere.
Doubtful, since the only thing changing is the requirement to correct the accumulated time error. Experience tells me that typically, there will be 3-5 time error corrections a month. More often than not, they are to correct a slow time error ( - seconds). The requirements to maintain frequency still remain the same. They just aren't going to require the small accumulated errors that occur over time.
Semiconductor wafer fab lines may be the worst case. A power outage there can break equipment and spoil almost all wafers in process. That could be hundreds of millions of dollars lost from a single outage.
Scarce wonder that a wafer fab will spend, say, 20 million on a complete factory UPS--that is, about 1 percent of the entire plant investment.
Since you said MHz there, it brought to mind the fact that the FedGov has already done something like this with the forced transition from analog to digital TV. (Not actually Obama's fault, for once.)
BTW, the reason for 400 Hz in aircraft was to reduce the size of the (heavy) power transformers. The ones designed for 400 Hz can be a lot smaller, although you pay for this in that they also run hotter, due to hysteresis losses in the cores.
Those 400 MHz generators are called radios. :=) I'm sure that an extra "M" slipped in there.
Yes, 400 Hz power is common in areas where there's a benefit to using the higher frequency which allows for smaller motors, transformers, and the like.
Thousands of pump jacks, pulling oil from the depths, are powered by electric motors. Those motors aren't cheap.
The oil industry remains, despite the open and numerous attacks by the Obama Administration, the bright and shining economic engine driving relative prosperity in those few areas independent of government jobs which have not been dragged into the swirling vortex of the Obama economy.
You’re welcome. I can’t say the information was a complete surprise but it’s presentation got my attention.
I’m glad it provided you too with some additional insight into the UNrelenting forces arayed against US.
SatinDoll, methinks that even if/when we get grid free, the technocrats/globalists/whatever will still be looking for complete control over US.
I think it might be in their genes. <;^(
Scary stuff.
Devastating EMP effects without having to set anything off.
They are doing everything possible to create chaos and despair in the name of the “common good”.
It amazes me how few people it takes to cause so much misery.
It’s not paranoia if they’re really out to get you.
You haven’t changed your clock to match Freeper Standard Time. FST
I’m such a dummy early in the morning, duh! Yeah I meant hertz.
What do you make of the above article, do you think they are related?
That needs to be done, especially in light of all the subsidized alternative energy projects out there which just aren't reliable to maintain continued output over time (wind, solar, etc.)
If those are going to be integrated into the grid, the grid is going to need to be modified to carry not only that power, but any compensatory power to fill in the gaps when those systems underperform.
What the Times article describes is more the equivalent of 'wargaming' scenarios in order to be able to plan future development.
Yes, more malevolent things could be written in, but this may well be benign.
It seems it would harm our appliances.
Well, Red China will be happy because we’ll have to buy more.
Thx SJ, this subject is definitely over my head. So, I appreciate your help and information.
Thanks. I know a little. I am sure there are others here more knowledgeable than I am. That’s the beauty of this site, though, misconceptions get cleared up by people who work with things every day.
So, assuming the Hz, MHz thing is a mistake, WTF are you talking about?
Military aircraft use 400HZ, not 400MHZ.
But what's magic about those RPMs when the dynamos were being driven by steam engines? They didn't seem to have any trouble running at, say, 200 or 400 RPM to make 16.6666 cps. If anything, it would reduce bearing friction loss and operating life. Maybe that's actually the reason why they used (and in certain places like electric railroads still use) the lower frequencies.
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