Posted on 06/04/2011 3:20:27 PM PDT by Chunga85
Is it ethical for the American homeowner whose mortgage has been securitized to default, even If they are not financially distressed?
First, consider it is unlikely that marketable, fee simple, insurable title can be obtained as a result of fulfilling the obligations of the related promissory note. On the contrary the titles to some 60 million homes in America are badly clouded. Secondly, encouraging investment in an asset class that has been artificially inflated, then deliberately destroying the price of the asset, as part of a separate profit making scheme is unethical, and any agreement based on this type of fraud is grounds to consider the original debt instrument used in the agreement null and void. Fortunately these grounds are unnecessary, as increasingly US courts are ruling that these mortgages are already invalid for numerous other reasons.
On November 12th, 2010 we published our article “Tattoos, Pyramid Schemes and Social Justice” in which we advocated that homeowners consider suspending their mortgage payments. In the article we enumerated reasons why we felt this action is both ethical and prudent. On January 11th, 2011 we published our articles “Ibanez– Denying the Antecedent, Suppressing the Evidence and one big fat Red Herring” which outlined the legal realities of securitized mortgages, and the impact of the landmark Ibanez decision on homeowners, particularly in Massachusetts. We affirmed our conviction that Massachusetts homeowners with securitized mortgages might want to consider suspending their mortgage payment, and place instead their funds into an escrow account.
(Excerpt) Read more at amvona.com ...
Unbelievable isn’t it? One of my homes was motgaged with IndyMac Bank. Guess who took over my mortgage when the Government closed its doors? Yup, It was offered to OneWest Bank aka George Soros, in that sweet heart deal you talk about. This is why I will fight tooth and nail to never foreclose on this property because if I do, this loser makes out.
Our country is a mess. Damn Shame!
“It is about the law. More accurately, it’s about the fact that we seem to have two sets of laws...one for government and “Too Big To Fail” financial institutions and another for everyone else.”
Chunga, This statement sums it for me. I was raised to believe and taught in school that we are all EQUAL under the law. This what pisses me off more than anything. We are living in times of anarchy and the people who keep talking about deadbeats are too blind to see the REAL problem.
Our country is on life support. I do not know what it will be for my children. It makes me sick.
Miss, you need to stop acting like you are somehow morally superior than others. It is people like you who give us Christians a bad name. You open yourself up to be called a hypocrit.
Now, did you not read any of my posts? I am not in foreclosure and I pay my bills with out problem. You are too blind to see the bigger picture in all of this. I am not helping kick America when she is down. I amtrying to show people how far down America is.
Read Chunga’s post #28
Now Read my reply to him in #42
We are living in a time of Anarchy when no one really knows what the rules of the game are because there not Equally apllied to all of us. That my friedn is the real root of the problem. Not the so-called “deadbeats”.
Wake up, will you.
Kart, in reply to your post #31. I agree with your sentiment. I am really starting to believe that people do not have the capacity to see the bigger picture. The problem is picking of winners and losers. The rules are not he same for everyone.
You know I once dated a woman from Ukraine. She grew up in the Soviet Union. She used to tell me all the time that it was chaos living under Communists rule because no one really knew what the rule were. They were different rules for everybody.
This si where we are headed if we don’t get this under control. But here have people like sportutegrl attempting to take the moral high ground while neglecting to see where the morality is broken.
unbelievable.
I lived through the 1970's and 1980's where there were housing price crashes and I personally knew people with conventional 30 year loans that played by the rules and somehow were 'underwater'. No one even suggested for one microsecond that they would simply stop paying or turn their house over to the bank. It was simply unheard of. People had signed a contract and were going to live up to it. There was also a huge bank scandal that involved banks lending money on overvalued commercial properties and getting bailed out when the defaults came in. (See Keating 5 S&L crisis). Still no one walked away from their mortgage as long as they could still pay.
If someone is handing out taxpayer dollars to redheads, I would get in line if I was a redhead. I blame the guys handing out the dollars, the politicians in charge of spending our money wisely, the government. If the government is going to tax us and hand out free money to banks, I can't blame the banks for getting in line and holding out their hands.
Defaulting on a loan that you can pay will only make this problem worse. Plus, you are playing right into the anarchist C&P crash the system strategy. Hey, are you one of them?
LOL, No I am not “one of them”. Where did I make a call for everyone to stop making payments on their mortgages?
I too have lived through the 70’s and 80’s. I grew up in RI ground zero for the S&L crises. I personally know many people who lost there lives savings and their businesses from the S&L debacle. Funny that you bring that up. I also watched the S&L’s go out of business. I did not see the government call for them being TBTF. I also, remember court cases and the convictions.
Who has been convicted of wrong doing?
As for not blaming the banks for getting inline for taxpayer money as you wopuld od it as well. That is twisted thinking. Can’t beat them, join them mentality is the very mentality behind the crises we find ourselves in.
To give you the type of family I come from, my father was laid off his job back in Jan 2009, He collected 26weeks unemployment with one 13 week extension but could not find work. He saw that the government was being ridiculous with the unemployment extensions and decided for himself that he would not be a burden on his children and other taxpayers so he declined renew his unemployment insurance and decided to cut his loses and file an early retiement with Social Security, taking the penalty along with it.
He refused to get inline for more than what he saw was his fair share. He did not want keep his hand out for what he said is now a welfare program.
I would do the same. I would not take free money because I know there is no such thing. Especially from the government who must borrow to give it to me, then steal it from someone else to pay the loan.
I don't know if this is part of "crash the system" or not. but I do believe we need to have far more transparency in the investment banking industry.
Those investment banks which are publicly traded need to shine the light of day on their balance sheets. Show exactly how much reserve they have for uncollectible loans, and if they are underreserved, they need to take their writedowns like grownups.
Some of us have been calling for this since the rot first became apparent in 2007. Unfortunately, the "cover it with a band-aid" crowd is still in control, Democrats and Republicans both.
[If you think that all business people (which you obviously don’t given your last post)are morally and ethically honest then yes, all debts should be repaid.]
All debts should be repaid only if all business people are moral and honest?
FAIL.
You don’t take responsibility for much, do you punk?
Who the hell do think is going to end up paying for your FRAUD, hmm? QE1 QE2 QE.. etc etc etc.
I don’t care if you’re a bidness man or a shoe shiner - if you take other people’s money whilst making promises that are fraudulent, then you belong in jail.
You and a whole bunch of other MBA NyLon suuuper genius thieves evidently oughta be hanging your More BULLSHYTE Ahead certifeecations on the walls of quadruple occupied 8x10 concrete cells.
You think you got problems now Junior - wait till the IRS gets around nailing your arse for the delinquent taxes on “income” that’s manifested by your unpaid “forgiven” debts.
Your problems are JUST beginning. You’re a financial zombie.
LOL.
"...What it basically means is: to change the perception of reality of every American that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages.The first stage being "demoralization"..."KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov, Interviewed in 1984
The systemic corruption we're experiencing is a direct consequence of the successful demoralization of this society.
“It is about the law.”
What was it about when a bunch of “fithcally conthervative” RINO interior decorators lied about their incomes and committed mortgage fraud?
Did MERS make them lie on their “LIAR Loans”?
[I have had (recently) trouble paying off credit card debt.]
In other words you’re RINO deadbeat retard (with an MBA) who’s too stupid not to eat the bait - and now that you’ve been hooked you expect the rest of us bail you out.
Well NO SALE, deadbeat - do not pass GO, do not collect 50,000 Baraqi Inflato bucks: GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL.
If it's paid off; look for a filed/recorded mortgage release going back to the original lender your mortgage was with. Basically the release shows the original note (actually the mortgage or deed of trust that secured that note) has been released.
You can find that on your counties recorders website.
If you borrowed the money from Countrywide and paid it off, (even if the loan was sold to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac which it probably was); look for a mortgage satisfaction or release of your original loan.
I used to read something and wonder if the author had the facts straight, now I read and often wonder if the author even knew what he was trying to say.
Yeah. An awful lot of the pieces that we reference here for discussion are so poorly written and researched, often with key facts omitted because of stupidity or a desire to present the story with a certain slant.
I’ve seen some pretty heated exchanges on FR over posted “news articles” that were so devoid of relevant information that it was (IMO) impossible to have an informed debate on them
A person has a constitutional right to the benefits of their contracts. If contract provides for a strategic default, how is it immoral or unethical? The bank agreed to those terms, as well.
Define a strategic default and show me the clause in your mortgage.
The law in my state is that a lender cannot go after any deficiency on a real estate loan?
And if you don’t understand the concept of a strategic default, you have no business discussing anything on this thread because you are simply not smart enough to participate.
A strategic default is a fine concept as in abandoning your mortgage voluntarily. Where I live, the debt and your credit rating are not forgiven for defaulting on your mortgage, unless you declare bankruptcy. Now that is strategic and legal.
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