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Why Is The Economy So Bad?
The American Dream ^ | May 28 2011

Posted on 05/29/2011 3:58:14 AM PDT by GonzoII

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To: Spktyr
And thanks to unions,

BS, there are more right-to-work states than there are union states. The companies moving overseas are for the most part PROFITABLE NON-UNION companies who wan to make a few pennies more on the dollar by selling out. The union thing isn't working anymore, Free Traders need a new one.

61 posted on 05/29/2011 5:33:03 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Will88
Bernanke sure believes it and seems to be going to the other extreme by constantly increasing the money supply with easy money.

So how's that working for ya?

62 posted on 05/29/2011 5:33:36 AM PDT by GregoryFul (Obama - Jim Jones redux)
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To: GregoryFul

We’ll not recover from de-industrializing America, if we don’t.

If we’re going down, might as well be fighting.


63 posted on 05/29/2011 5:33:40 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
I’d advocate 100%.

I like your plan on tariffs, but lets be sneaky about like the Free Traders are sneaky. We'll start our tariff at a benign 10%. Then, we will increase it 10% per year, slowly turning up the heat.

PS We will EXCLUDE energy imports just to piss off the greeniacs.

64 posted on 05/29/2011 5:37:25 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

I propose a new term, mostly in jest:

“TINO”.

Tariffs in name only. :)


65 posted on 05/29/2011 5:39:56 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: GonzoII

Because we forgot America is different than the rest of the world.

We are playing with socialistic fire.


66 posted on 05/29/2011 5:40:15 AM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Freedom to create, innovate, employ, experiment, invest, enjoy the fruits of same, were the engines that brought America to the wealthiest nation in history. many of our people, and clearly our government, has abandoned those policies - and until they are reinstated, this country is doomed.

Tariffs on imports will speed the demise to an even more blistering pace. Check out what higher oil prices do to our economy - and multiply by 100.

67 posted on 05/29/2011 5:40:23 AM PDT by GregoryFul (Obama - Jim Jones redux)
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To: GonzoII

Two words: “Big Government.”

And even though the growth numbers for GDP have been positive, that’s misleading because the growth has come primarily in the governmental sector, where there is no market mechanism to authenticate the value of the spending. You can spend a trillion dollars digging holes in the ground, and that adds a trillion dollars to the GDP.


68 posted on 05/29/2011 5:40:38 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: I still care

We lit the match of that fire, when we began sending what was once referred to so proudly as the “Arsenal of Democracy” to history’s largest communist nation, simply to enrich a small circle of powerful people, of questionable national loyalty, motivated only by greed.

There’s a name for that sort of thing.


69 posted on 05/29/2011 5:43:56 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: GregoryFul
Tariffs crumpled the economy into a decade of depression in the 1930's. And it will not work now.

More Free Trader propaganda, tariffs HAD NO EFFECT on the depression.

Imports during 1929 were only 4.2% of the United States' GNP and exports were only 5.0%. Monetarists such as Milton Friedman who emphasize the central role of the money supply in causing the depression, downplay the Smoot-Hawley's effect on the entire U.S. economy.[20]

70 posted on 05/29/2011 5:46:33 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: GregoryFul
So how's that working for ya?

Different times and different economic problems, and different causes.

But you are posting total nonsense when you say that tariffs were some significant part of the GD. Read something and learn what really happened.

71 posted on 05/29/2011 5:47:47 AM PDT by Will88
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To: Will88

———which Americans are overpaid -——

The market makes that determination. Generally, those who make products that can not be sold at a profit


72 posted on 05/29/2011 5:50:32 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: bert
The purpose of business, that is capitalism, is to make money, not provide wages to over paid workers.

Destroying our industrial base so your 20K car costs 19.5K is not free trade - it's national suicide. It's memorial day weekend. So all of our guys fighting and dying, if you could somehow ask them if Free Trade was a good idea and destroying our manufacturing base in the process was a good idea, HOW DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD ANSWER?

Dealing in Chinese slave labor is NOT CAPITALISM.

73 posted on 05/29/2011 5:53:03 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Right now China is giving us stuff for a lot less than the value of the $'s we are sending to China (basically quickly depreciating paper, in itself a big darn problem, but they still can buy gold, silver, iron, copper, other commodities, etc., with it). So far, so good. When they decide not the accept paper $'s for goods, you've got your wished for tariff, or the mega equivalent of, and this economy will crumple, and the people, will convulse - I think in less than a year or two.

Evidence: Take a look at the violent and continuous down trend in the value of the $ internationally - real world stuff, not pipe dream nonsense. Take a look at bond buyers striking against buying any more US Treasury debt. Check out S&P's opinion on the risk of owning US paper, etc.

If you think we have it bad now, just wait a bit. So stock up on goods from China, while they are still a bargain.

74 posted on 05/29/2011 5:58:22 AM PDT by GregoryFul (Obama - Jim Jones redux)
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To: GregoryFul

That’s the problem.

If we wait to impose tariffs, China will simply charge us more, and we’ll get no benefit.

At least tariffs will apply toward our budget deficit.


75 posted on 05/29/2011 6:01:27 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (BUY AMERICAN. The job you save will be your son's, or your daughter's)
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To: bert
The market makes that determination.

Lol, not really. The thing that determines that these days is whether or not a job can be moved to cheap labor nations and the work product, whether a manufactured product or an intellectual product, can then be shipped or transmitted back to the US.

Whether a job can be moved, and government intervention; that determines everything these days, not some fantasy market forces at work.

But, even if many aren't honest enough to admit it, everyone who earns their living in the USA is overpaid compared to global averages, including you if you work in the USA in any capacity.

It is totally dishonest and self-serving to deny that fact. And your fantasy free market will never exist until labor of all types is just as free to move across borders as capital.

Do you favor the total free movement of labor to bring about a genuine free market?

76 posted on 05/29/2011 6:01:41 AM PDT by Will88
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To: Will88
But you are posting total nonsense when you say that tariffs were some significant part of the GD.

Glad you are so positive - experts differ on that. In my opinion the resulting trade wars so disrupted an already suffering economic system, it was crumpled by stupid interventions like "lets make commerce more difficult and expensive. Ya, that's the ticket!"

77 posted on 05/29/2011 6:05:14 AM PDT by GregoryFul (Obama - Jim Jones redux)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I disagree. Across the board tariffs will simply increase everyone’s costs.


78 posted on 05/29/2011 6:05:25 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: PGalt

Too bad the facts don’t support most of the assumptions in this debate.

1. The US has been losing manufacturing jobs since the peak in July of 1979. But industrial output has continued to grow faster than the rest of the world.
2. During the decade when we were “exporting 50k manufacturing jobs per month” China lost 15% of their manufacturing jobs.
3. The industrial nations lost 32 million manufacturing jobs in a decade. But industrial output has continued to grow up until the recession.
4. These jobs aren’t being exported, they’re just going away. Labor has become so expensive and risky that capital investment to automate is more attractive.
5. As regulation makes capital investment less attractive, the capital will move elsewhere.
6. Tariffs don’t work. In the 10 years after NAFTA the US saw the largest surge in manufacturing jobs in 50 years. So did Canada and Mexico.


79 posted on 05/29/2011 6:05:47 AM PDT by JohnLayden (It's called productivity, and you can't stop it)
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To: central_va

The primary flaw in your thinking is the concept of Chinese Slave Labor. The labor is made by those who desire to exit the oppressive poverty of the countryside and improve the quality of their lives.

You might spend a few minutes reading about the growth of all things Chinese and the return of pure, raw entrepreneurial personal initiative into the Chinese economy.

The old style oppression is severely diminished and business is rushing to the forefront.


80 posted on 05/29/2011 6:05:59 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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