Senator Blutarsky.... Senator Obama.... Hmmmm.
Posted on 05/27/2011 4:41:45 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
We can’t deny it anymore: college is a scam and a bubble (see the reasons why below). But I’m the first to admit it’s going to take years for that bubble to burst. And while college tuitions are still skyrocketing and student-loan debt is creating a generation of indentured servants, we might as well benefit from it
Many stocks will continue to go up from the multi-decade college bubble, even as it eventually bursts: The Washington Post Co. , which owns Stanley Kaplan, gets all of its earnings from the education side of its business. Blackboard , which is the firepower underneath online course management. Google , which has all the knowledge of the world at your fingertips and also is trying to get into the online course management game. Apple , because the increase in MacBook Air sales is due to more colleges buying them for their labs, and probably a basket of the cheaper online education schools like APOL , etc.
Student loan debt is now greater than credit card debt for the first time ever. After the huge debt crisis we experienced in 2008 and the financial bust in housing that ruined so many lives you would think we would be having more of a national discussion on this but we just aren’t.
¦ As a result, for the first time ever we are graduating a generation of indentured servants rather than the entrepreneurs, innovators, artists, and inventors that America is known for. I have no self-interest in this (I’m obvious not shorting colleges. That’s impossible). I just hate seeing American go down the drain.
¦ 44% of graduates in 2009 are either unemployed or hold jobs that don’t require degrees. So in other words, these millions of young people are five years behind their peers
(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...
I said then it was a waste of time and money. Now somebody agrees.
Could you make the same money in the exact same position without that degree? That is why college is EXTREMELY important.
Lets say that student doesn’t work for McDonalds, but gets a job wher he learns to be a Plumberor electrician or a Diesel Mechanic. Works hard learns his trade opens his on business and becomes a millionaire and hires your son to be his accountant.
Thousands of self made millionaires never went to college, working for McDonalds isn’t the only job out there.I have a friend who is no brain trust, He started out pumping septic tanks, bought Jiffy-John toilets, cleaned them himself, He is now a Millionaire. Another friend went to college , taught school and is now retired and working as a carpenter to make neds meet and hasn’t two dimes to rub together.
College is only as good as what you get out of it. If you go there to play Foozball and get laid you may as well take that job at Mickey D’s.
I am getting long in the tooth and came from another generation, my parents could not afford to send me to college, and my grades weren’t that great anyway. Back in those days the thought of borrowing $20,000 the cost of college in 1960 , to go into debt right out of High School was unthinkable.
Today the thought of a parent being able to send their kid to college is ridiculous, unles you are a millionaire. College is entirely too expensive,because they have filled themselves with useless course’s, and Professors who couldn’t do a real job if they had one. Those who can —do, Those who can’t -—teach. That’s a little extreme , but it isn’t dead wrong either.
Don’t forget beer pong!
Maid the authors point? Boy, a college education wasn’t wasted on you! I only graduated high school in 1962 but I’m almost certain that the correct word is made.
Sure, someone who is sufficiently smart and motivated can “teach themselves”. The knowledge is readily available in a library or online. For example, a few schools (like MIT) have their course materials online (free). But potential employers STILL want to see that sheepskin. And I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
“I just can’t get on board this anti-college stunt.”
I’m with you. These days you need an Associate Degree just to be able to prove that you can do basic reading and math. A high school diploma means NOTHING, except that the principal got tired of seeing your face in the hallways. And employers KNOW THIS.
If you want someone that can actually read well and write at least fairly well, and knows math almost to Calculus, then it takes a Bachelor’s Degree from a legitimate college (not University of Phoenix, LOL). An accredited school will not let you pass through without learning...not if they want to keep their accreditation. Public high schools don’t have that concern.
Now, before you all tell me how your little Johnny went to public school, got into a great college, and had a great career, I’m referring to the other 70% or 80% of people in high school. These are the people that get through high school, then find out that they need to take remedial classes at a junior college, and then figure out that even those remedial classes are beyond what they’ve been taught. Those are the high school graduates that EMPLOYERS see showing up at their doors...and the ones that most of them simply cannot hire.
To look at it another way. 45 years ago, a person graduating high school had about the same capability as a person with a Bachelor’s Degree today, and an 11th grade dropout still had the capability of an Associate’s Degree today...they simply would not have made it into 11th grade if they didn’t have that capability. Hence the requirements for college degrees.
And one other way to look at it. A typical high school graduate needs about two years of remedial to start taking real college-level classes in the United States. In much of Europe and most of Asia, that same high school graduate has COMPLETED 2 years of college-level work, before even starting college. In other words, they start out 4 years ahead of us. The only things that keep us from going Third World just due to this is that we still attract very smart people from around the world, who were educated properly (it’s really not that hard to do), and we have Home Schoolers that don’t take the government school Kool-Aid and educate their kids at Asian levels (or beyond even).
Sorry, I haven’t had my coffee yet.
Could one obtain a worthy skill at a trade school and become successful? Most certainly. A person with a construction trade such as plumbing, electrical, or basic carpentry could do very well. Doesn't even have to be in a new construction setting--re-modeling of existing homes is booming in many areas.
Many would argue that a 2-year college degree is enough; in certain fields perhaps, but those degrees are limiting, because they often focus on a specific technology or focus in a field. This might include a particular programming language, or a specialty like dental hygiene. These degrees might get you into the door of a company with a very targeted need, but a four-year degree is seen as more versatile, providing much more foundational skills.
One could argue against all of this, saying that there are plenty of self-taught, college drop-outs who've become successful in their businesses. Yes, that's true. It's a much more difficult road though, and not everyone has the ability or entreprenurial skills to start and run their own successful business. Not everyone can be a "people person" and be effective in sales. Not everyone can "get in with a good government job" by knowing someone in the union, and retire in twenty years. Right now, having four-year degree from a reasonably decent college, with a meaningful field of study is a good back-up plan.
Depends how much your hypothetical McDonald’s manager is paying to service his student loans, too.
It isn’t as aimple as college vs no—college. But colleges need to get their costs under control. Continually escalating tuition at several times the official inflation rate is no answer. Sooner or later, online universities & community colleges are going to become the norm.
Books are the biggest college scam there is. They tend to change them slightly each year so you must buy the new version and can’t buy used and can’t sell your old ones.
I don't agree with his logic. College is not necessarily a bad idea or a good idea. I do think that the sum that many third-tier private colleges bill for tuition amounts to a scam.
If mom and dad can write the check they should be able to spend their money any way they see fit. I also think 20-year school loans, or 10-year car loans are pretty stupid financial decisions.
Was he ever forced to try? I don't mean to be snide, but a big problem with dependency is that it's allowed to go on and on with the dependent person never given the chance to sink or swim. Classic welfare mentality. Without the freedom to fail there is no freedom to succeed, or even just get by.
Another thing I have noticed about other countries and education is that they learn a foreign language or two. When I was young, I always felt like the rest of the world should learn English. Now many countries do teach English throughout the education process along with other languages. We don’t. It is always a good thing to know another language, even if it’s just to enjoy your vacation more. LOL
“I just can’t get on board with this anti-college stunt”.
Granted, not everyone is suited for college. Some people are better with a tech school. That being said, many professions demand a college education. Want to be a nurse? You can’t be one without a college degree. Want to be an engineer, doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc.? You simply can’t be one without college. Unfortunately with the economy, many families are scrambling and trying to figure out just what to do. A two year program at a community college and then transfer to a university is one option. Having the student work part time and summers to assist with tuition, fees, etc.. is a good option for many reasons. Having the child live at home while attending college is a third. What I fear is this: the gap between the “have’s” and “have nots” will increase dramatically in the coming years based on college attendance. It is that simple. There will always be the “exception” of someone who becomes wealthy without a degree; however, that isn’t as common as we would like. So, yes, I have a hard time jumping on the college isn’t worth it board as well.
student loans should be dischargable in bankruptcy.
Perhaps only in ch13 so a few pennies will be paid over five years.
Your stepson may be under the impression that his degree in computer science now qualifies him for a top job in the field. On the contrary, technology is advancing daily.
What he learned in his classes may be somewhat obsolete by now. The fact that apparently he has not the passion for knowledge that would cause him to read history, literature, etc. on his own, may be a hint that he may not have the drive to keep up with the ever-changing technology as well, and that would be an absolute necessity to hold a job in the industry.
I was a school teacher for 15 years before delving into a self-taught technology career of web development. I can tell you that it is a never-ending battle to keep abreast of the advancements which is a necessity in order to stay anywhere near the “cutting edge” which is what clients expect and demand.
Even so, even after many spare hours spent reading tech journals and text books, I have never lost sight of the importance to keep reading history, economics, politics and literature. Much of the fore-mentioned, I put on an i-Touch (books on MP3 files), which I can listen to while multitasking ..... doing housework, in the car, walking the dog, etc. You can even get free MP3 files of a lot of classic literature and free pod casts on other topics as well. I just finished “Atlas Shrugged”, all while multitasking other mindless jobs.
As a parent, you may have to give him some gentle pushes towards success. Don’t allow him to think that it is his “degree” that will insure that successful career. Think outside the box!
Language skills are important, but for a European or an Asian learning English is a no-brainer. Is there a single ‘obvious’ alternate language for Americans? Spanish? Mandarin? Cantonese? It all depends where you intend to market your skills I guess.
Well, yes -- IMO it is the non-dischargeable aspect of student loans that is a major cause of the huge tuition inflation over the last decades. Allow student loans to be dischargeable in bankruptcy and lenders will need to be much more careful about how much they loan, and to whom. (This would likely lead to the closing of hundreds if not thousands of second and third tier private colleges. That would not be a bad thing.)
No degree, no interview.
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