Posted on 05/23/2011 4:37:47 AM PDT by marktwain
A Tucson, Ariz., SWAT team defends shooting an Iraq War veteran 60 times during a drug raid, although it declines to say whether it found any drugs in the house and has had to retract its claim that the veteran shot first.
And the Pima County sheriff scolded the media for "questioning the legality" of the shooting.
Jose Guerena, 26, died the morning of May 5. He was asleep in his Tucson home after working a night shift at the Asarco copper mine when his wife, Vanessa, saw the armed SWAT team outside her youngest son's bedroom window.
"She saw a man pointing at her with a gun," said Reyna Ortiz, 29, a relative who is caring for Vanessa and her children. Ortiz said Vanessa Guerena yelled, "Don't shoot! I have a baby!"
Vanessa Guerena thought the gunman might be part of a home invasion -- especially because two members of her sister-in-law's family, Cynthia and Manny Orozco, were killed last year in their Tucson home, her lawyer, Chris Scileppi, said. She shouted for her husband in the next room, and he woke up and told his wife to hide in the closet with the child, Joel, 4.
SWAT officers fired at least 71 shots at suspect Jose Guerena, a former U.S. Marine, and a family struggles to put the pieces together.
Guerena grabbed his assault rifle and was pointing it at the SWAT team, which was trying to serve a narcotics search warrant as part of a multi-house drug crackdown, when the team broke down the door. At first the Pima County Sheriff's Office said that Guerena fired first, but on Wednesday officials backtracked and said he had not. "The safety was on and he could not fire," according to the sheriff's statement.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
"Trust me, I shoot tons of people -- this was a good shoot." -- Sheriff Dipstick
Most SWAT teams now arrive with plenty of lights and sirens just to avoid any ID problems.
If you showed a gun, you would probably be told to drop it ASAP. Turn it toward the SWATTERS, “.....Dearly Beloved.....”
What happens if you just say "Show me your ID first."?
Some guy on another thread says it is the fault of everyone who thinks drugs should be legalized that a black kid set his mother on fire.
ID ?
In the states I am familiar with, a displayed badge with a badge number ( and in some cases a name tag is required) suffices for the display of an ID.
There are two types of warrants, regular and minimal or “no-knock” warrants. No-knock are only issued when bad asses are expected. They result in evidence not being destroyed and people not being killed because they don’t have time to get their AK-47s
And what is even more sickening to me is that the Swat team will get away with murdering the poor guy.
Exactly HOW have you demonstrated what?
> Consider the logical chain of events.
> Cops arrive with a search warrant, or feel they have exigent reasons to search without a warrant. You, the homeowner think the warrant is defective or there are not exigent circumstances.
Consider this alternate chain of events:
Armed and masked burglars arrive posing as police SWAT. You suspect they are not police because you are an honest citizen who has never had trouble in the community:
You can either permit the entry after vocalizing your objection or resist it with force, even deadly force.
Here’s what will happen.
1) If you comply without question - you will be robbed and possibly raped/murdered at the whim of your captors.
2) If you verbally object - you will be robbed and possibly raped/murdered at the whim of your captors.
3) If you physically object with deadly force - you may win or lose, but the odds have moved sharply in your favor.
Somebody starts pounding on your door in the middle of the night, claiming to be the police. Whoever is on the other side of that door may or may not be the police.
If they are the police and you don't disarm and let them in (or wait while they break down the door), you're probably going to die. If they aren't the really the police then that's the last thing you want to do.
You won't get to see a badge, or any other kind of ID until they're in the house, and you're disarmed, and at that point it's pretty will moot.
Your guess is as good as mine on that one.....
“I’m not a fan of no-knock raids but they were developed to prevent drug dealers from flushing the evidence down the toilet before the cops gained entry. If there were ways of collecting flushed items before they hit the main line, these raids could be eliminated.”
There are ways of doing this. You flush UP the line with pressurized water, and then block the line before it hits the sewer split. It’d be far more effective than shooting and hoping it beats the flush, and far less likely to damage a property you can RICO if the criminal is dealing in it, anyway.
But fear of flushing wasn’t why they used SWAT and then shot him. They no-knocked and shot him because they thought he had guns. Take whatever lesson you want there.
KGUN9 News is showing video of the SWAT raid now - I did not hear sirens;
“They’re going to fire until that threat is no longer...” - Pima County Sheriff’s Deputy explaining why they fired 71 rounds.
The toddler walked out on his own more than 15 minutes after they shot his Daddy.
Fine in theory. If you live in town, especially in a noisy area like near an airport, you probably have heavy curtains and extra soundproofing. And if they're doing that, why do they say they can only wait about 15 seconds before the break down the door to keep you from flushing evidence if they really believe you've already had plenty of time to determine who they are before they even got there?
I agree.
btrl
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