Posted on 05/23/2011 4:37:47 AM PDT by marktwain
A Tucson, Ariz., SWAT team defends shooting an Iraq War veteran 60 times during a drug raid, although it declines to say whether it found any drugs in the house and has had to retract its claim that the veteran shot first.
And the Pima County sheriff scolded the media for "questioning the legality" of the shooting.
Jose Guerena, 26, died the morning of May 5. He was asleep in his Tucson home after working a night shift at the Asarco copper mine when his wife, Vanessa, saw the armed SWAT team outside her youngest son's bedroom window.
"She saw a man pointing at her with a gun," said Reyna Ortiz, 29, a relative who is caring for Vanessa and her children. Ortiz said Vanessa Guerena yelled, "Don't shoot! I have a baby!"
Vanessa Guerena thought the gunman might be part of a home invasion -- especially because two members of her sister-in-law's family, Cynthia and Manny Orozco, were killed last year in their Tucson home, her lawyer, Chris Scileppi, said. She shouted for her husband in the next room, and he woke up and told his wife to hide in the closet with the child, Joel, 4.
SWAT officers fired at least 71 shots at suspect Jose Guerena, a former U.S. Marine, and a family struggles to put the pieces together.
Guerena grabbed his assault rifle and was pointing it at the SWAT team, which was trying to serve a narcotics search warrant as part of a multi-house drug crackdown, when the team broke down the door. At first the Pima County Sheriff's Office said that Guerena fired first, but on Wednesday officials backtracked and said he had not. "The safety was on and he could not fire," according to the sheriff's statement.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
That picture says it all.
In this cast the ranting is not “paranoid” but quite reasonable; 71 shots fired (when no shot had been fired at them) and no warrant issued.
You forgot to mention shooting the dog and seizing all of their assets.
>Because after all, they wouldn’t lie - they’re the Blue Hero Brotherhood, “to Protect, and Serve”, with “Honor, Service, and Integrity”...
Rearrange that, and add Truth, and you would have: Service, Honor, Integrity, and Truth.
Makes for the nice catch-phrase “We at the Tucson SWAT are all about SHIT.”
>Look at you. You’re willing to exile people and strip them of their liberties for crimes that didn’t exist 100 years ago.
Not only that; but what of the police who do lie on the stand? What about those police (and other gov. officials) who violate the Bill of Rights?
Last year it was a grandma in Chicago...wrong house. She pulled her .38 and was shot dead in her rocking chair.
Not only is it dangerous, it’s costly. If they knock down the door and find the drugs, we have to pay for their 3 hots and a cot for several years. If we give them time to flush the drugs, they get whacked by their dealer which costs us nothing.
>If a search warrant can be sealed, then the 4th Amendment is of no effect.
VERY true.
>IMO, they are trying to hide the CI (confidential informant). Either the warrant IDs him, or the CI is non-existent, and the complaining officer is tied up with the cartel.
Confidential Informants are, strictly speaking, a violation of the Sixth Amendment.
IN ALL CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS, THE ACCUSED SHALL ENJOY THE RIGHT to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; TO BE CONFRONTED WITH THE WITNESSES AGAINST HIM; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
“In this cast the ranting is not “paranoid” but quite reasonable; 71 shots fired (when no shot had been fired at them) and no warrant issued.”
There was a warrant, but the cops went to the wrong address. There is a difference between an inexcusible screw up and a purposeful assasination. The cops are doing what they always do, covering their butts by blaming the victim for their incompetance.
Yep, that's the whole point.
Since SWAT members are some of the 'elite police' on the force, their ID needs to be kept secret so other gang members can't retaliate by following them home from the station after their shift is over and killing them and their family.
That's the point and whole idea behind it.
But FWIW if I see a person or persons with a Black Ski Mask on sneaking up to my window or my door, a whole lotta lead is gonna be flying. 'Cause who the hell do I know whose behind that mask?
It sure ain't the Lone Ranger so is it a Cop or Home Invader? And since I'm Law Abiding I have to assume it's Home Invaders.
Like American citizenship or our totally diluted rights are worth a damn any more.
I won't color you a Statism Lover, because your comments do ascribe fault to police. Still, there is something very troubling here.
What do ya call the intentional government supported illegal invasion of our country by tens of millions of Mexicans, while Americans are forced by government to subsidize this country killing illegal invasion, which has resulted in tens of thousands of American victims?
Close. But you have to understand that absolutely nothing has been done to the original Constitution. It's merely being ignored. It has been replaced by Federal Administrative Law, which is not law but a system of policies specified by statute and implementing regulations.
And absolutely everyone has been "presumed" to be a Federal employee, otherwise known as an "individual."
But it gets better.
No one, anywhere, is saying you ARE a Federal employee.
Just that government officials of ANY kind may PRESUME you are a Federal employee...
...and thus liable to Federal/State/County/City/Local/Corporate Statutes/Regulations/Codes/Policies... and Administrative Courts... and Police.
How do you REFUTE that PRESUMPTION?
Well... Court POLICY is that the government doesn't have to admit the presumption in the first place, even though they are acting on it... and so you'd have to prove that it was being made, and the government's actions are not considered proof since they don't have to admit WHY they are acting in any particular way towards you... and anyway, once you show up in an administrative Court, the Court PRESUMES you've admitted its administrative status over yourself, so they'll reject any challenge to their presumption as FRIVOLOUS precisely BECAUSE you came to Court in the first place.
(And oh, by the way, a lawyer is.. an Officer of the Court!)
It's called a nice, neat package, and it provides great benefits and absolute indemnification for its employees.
You've heard of "Cloud Computing"?
We live in a "Cloud Government."
But don't tell anybody.
It's a secret.
Lets see here, the government publicly welcomes in a conga-line of millions of illegals, a good percentage of which are bringing in thousands of *tons* of drugs every year, and we're supposed to be worried about what someone can flush down a toilet in a matter of seconds?
Are you joking?
This guy was treated like a violent mass murdering international terrorist that just brought down a 747 full of innocent people.
Ya better wake up America.
Thank you, Texas Fossil, I think I’ll be able to attend.
Nonsense.
The only nonsense I am seeing are from your posts. The WOD has turned into a Constitution destroying government, who treats it's own citizens as the enemy, where the government has made a huge industry around the WODs. Ya don't throw millions of Americans in freaking cages for having drugs. It's BS. Ya do that with violent murderers terrorist and kidnappers.
If they have a drug problem ya help them if they want it. We can send hundreds of billions to foreign countries, and allow millions from Mexico to choke off our heath care, hospitals, schools, jails and social services right? The government forces us to do this. No?
Stop the BS WOD and ya put half the organized gangs out of biz.
You'd be able to eliminated *millions* making a living off the tax payers in police departments, courts, prisons etc. Government has turned this into a massive punitive industry where the government machine only gets bigger and bigger.
The big picture? While these violent Nazi Germany government tactics against the people escalate, big pharma is making *trillions* pushing many of their own harmful, additive "government approved" drugs.
Consider the logical chain of events.
Cops arrive with a search warrant, or feel they have exigent reasons to search without a warrant. You, the homeowner think the warrant is defective or there are not exigent circumstances.
You can either permit the search after vocalizing your objection or resist it with force, even deadly force.
Here's what will happen.
1: If you verbally object and the search was legal, sorry, but you were wring and you lose.
2: If you verbally object and the search was illegal, nothing obtained through the search is admissible, and you can recover money damages.
3: If you physically object and the search was legal, sorry, but you will probably be dead.
4: If you physically object and the search was illegal, sorry, but you will probably be dead anyway. Your family may sue and recover money damages, so you will get a very nice headstone... and you will still be dead. Cops can't stop because evidence might be destroyed or a person who called for help further injured.
If you can't understand those four choices, and you obviously can't, then I am overly tired of explaining it to you.
“OK, since you three are the duty WOsD cheerleaders, let’s have a history lesson.”
Yes a history lesson is certainly needed.
“The Declaration of Independence is the legal authority which founded this nation.”
Wrong. The DOI has no legal authority. It is a statement severing the colonies from Britain and the rationale for that decision.
“They put in an item about government with and by the “consent of the governed.” What did they mean? It seems pretty simple: You gave your INFORMED CONSENT to the acts of government, for they were done in your name and on your behalf.”
Wrong. The consent of the governed does not mean that YOU get to approve of all govt actions. It means that the people as a whole have a say in how they are governed and have a right to change it. We do that through our elected
representatives. The difference between British tyranny and our current govt is that we have representation (such as it is), that we can peaceably change it, and that we have inalienable rights.
“HOWEVER, you cannot give consent to government to do ANYTHING that YOU may not justly do.”
I know of nothing in the DOI or the constitution that supports what you have said. Furthermore the govt can do all sorts of things that YOU cannot justly do, like collect taxes, make laws and many many others.
“In the current instance, YOU cannot justly beat down your neighbor’s door and kill him for resisting, just because you think he might be using a substance of which you disapprove. Therefore, you cannot PROPERLY have anyone else doing so FOR YOU.”
FYI, the govt CAN justly beat down someone’s door and kill them for resisting IF they have a legal warrant to do so. Not just at the federal level but at the state and local level as well. Its been that way for a long long time, way before the WOD. You can argue whether the laws are valid, but they are on the books, put there by YOUR representatives.
In THIS instance the govt DID NOT JUSTLY beat down this guy’s door. Therefore they did NOT legally kill him for resisting. Its not a conspiracy, its a screw up and the people responsible should pay big time. They should also pay if there was a cover-up. Govt representatives should not be able to kill an innocent citizen, throw up their hands and say OPPs, and suffer no consequences.
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