Posted on 05/23/2011 4:37:47 AM PDT by marktwain
A Tucson, Ariz., SWAT team defends shooting an Iraq War veteran 60 times during a drug raid, although it declines to say whether it found any drugs in the house and has had to retract its claim that the veteran shot first.
And the Pima County sheriff scolded the media for "questioning the legality" of the shooting.
Jose Guerena, 26, died the morning of May 5. He was asleep in his Tucson home after working a night shift at the Asarco copper mine when his wife, Vanessa, saw the armed SWAT team outside her youngest son's bedroom window.
"She saw a man pointing at her with a gun," said Reyna Ortiz, 29, a relative who is caring for Vanessa and her children. Ortiz said Vanessa Guerena yelled, "Don't shoot! I have a baby!"
Vanessa Guerena thought the gunman might be part of a home invasion -- especially because two members of her sister-in-law's family, Cynthia and Manny Orozco, were killed last year in their Tucson home, her lawyer, Chris Scileppi, said. She shouted for her husband in the next room, and he woke up and told his wife to hide in the closet with the child, Joel, 4.
SWAT officers fired at least 71 shots at suspect Jose Guerena, a former U.S. Marine, and a family struggles to put the pieces together.
Guerena grabbed his assault rifle and was pointing it at the SWAT team, which was trying to serve a narcotics search warrant as part of a multi-house drug crackdown, when the team broke down the door. At first the Pima County Sheriff's Office said that Guerena fired first, but on Wednesday officials backtracked and said he had not. "The safety was on and he could not fire," according to the sheriff's statement.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
However, yes, this is becoming a police state. We need to resist.
By any means necessary.
Just reaffirms all my preconceptions about these trigger-happy, hyper-aggressive, twitchy, bottom-feeding thugs called SWAT teams. The SEALS hit UBL two or three times, this guy takes 60 hits. At least they found some hard drives and a porn stash in UBL’s place. Not a gram of powder or herb to show for this bloodbath.
Exactly! Legalize drugs, they don’t hurt anyone...
Mother arrested for allegedly stabbing infant daughter
http://www.kval.com/news/national/121925579.html
Lebanon Father Charged In Infant’s Death
http://www.wlwt.com/news/27972891/detail.html
““I am not for any of the things you mentioned, however I understand the rationale for the no-knock warrant. Warrants involve judges and probable cause.””
“Which are as fallible as any other human endeavor. There is no justification for even one incident like this...and there have been several. Even worse is the tangible lack of effect the “War on Drugs” has had despite all the expense and effort.”
All human endeavors are fallible, so should we end them? Mistakes happen and I think this was a mistake, not a premeditated mission to terrorize, tyranize or intimidate.
“Return all of the drugs to legal status, as they had before the ‘20s or so. No more drug dealers at that point, ‘cause there are no more profits at that point. Losing the taboo appeal will result in fewer users, not more. Maybe we can even talk parents into effectively educating their children about drugs, reducing demand even further.”
So drugs will be legal but there will be no one to sell them? That makes sense. No profit? A country full of addicted people will increase demand and the market will be huge. Someone will exploit it. The notion that fewer people will try drugs once they are legal is laughable, as is the notion of parents educating their kids. Talk about 40 years of failure.
“Please point out just where in the Constitution ANY level of government is given the authority to wage such a war on our own citizens. Bear in mind that the Constitution defines what GOVERNMENT is allowed to do, not the opposite. The war on some drugs has NO BASIS IN THE CONSTITUTION TO EXIST, period. If you believe otherwise, SHOW ME.”
As I’m sure you know, the “war on drugs” is a slogan, not an official declaration of war. And the war is on DRUGS, not the American people. The constitutional right to declare drugs illegal is the same as that for making anything illegal.
Then maybe the cops would start to rethink this macho ninja bull-bleep. I can’t think of a downside to it.
“Exactly! Legalize drugs, they don’t hurt anyone...”
Where did I claim “they don’t hurt anyone”?!?
What I AM claiming is that the “War on Drugs” causes more harm (and far more expense) than simply legalizing “illegal” drugs.
By the way, your anecdotes follow the same exact tactic as anti-gun headlines like “Six year old boy shoots four year old sister”. Should we make guns illegal because sometimes they’re harmful?
Freedom is imperative, and the “War on Drugs” is anti-freedom on several different levels.
Think about "Heroin" commercials aimed at teens.
As it turns out, the “war” is on the American people, as it is THEY (we) who pay the price for it, directly, as in this Marine’s case, or indirectly, in loss of our constitutionally-guaranteed rights, not to mention the increase in REAL crimes that are directly related to this so-called war. But I notice that you couldn’t point out where the Constitution authorizes this war. All you could do was say it really isn’t “war” on Americans by the government. Which is ALSO a lie.
“All human endeavors are fallible, so should we end them?”
We should certainly end those that have fatal consequences, while not accomplishing anything useful!
“Mistakes happen and I think this was a mistake, not a premeditated mission to terrorize, tyranize or intimidate.”
You excuse a war hero being killed like a dog while trying to defend his own home and family from unidentified assailants with “Mistakes happen”???
This was unacceptable on any level! Such things simply shouldn’t happen in the United States of America!
“So drugs will be legal but there will be no one to sell them?”
Some would be sold in “drugstores”. You may have heard of those...
Others, like marijuana, are easy to grow, eliminating the profit motive most directly.
“That makes sense. No profit? A country full of addicted people will increase demand and the market will be huge.”
You should look into the cost of pharmaceutical cocaine, or morphine. It’s far less than the illegal variety. As to a “country full of addicted people”, that’s what we have NOW after forty years of very expensive “enforcement”.
“The notion that fewer people will try drugs once they are legal is laughable,”
...except that it’s been the case everywhere legalization has been tried...
“as is the notion of parents educating their kids.”
Wow...you are disconnected from reality.
“Talk about 40 years of failure.”
I did. At any rate, I see you’ve not addressed some of my other important points such as alcohol and tobacco. So, when you have your shot of whiskey tonight, reflect on the fact that you’re taking a drug that’s responsible for thousands of deaths a year here in the US - far more than any sane person attributes to marijuana for instance.
I was trying to find something we could learn from this horrific event.
“Think about “Heroin” commercials aimed at teens.”
Right, like all the alcohol and tobacco advertising that’s allowed targeting teens...
Right.
Nothing happens without a reason.
If you can’t see the difference in the police state from 1950 to today, no one can help you, I suppose.
Even during alchohol prohibition things weren’t like they are now.
You are being conditioned.
Unintentionally, you just made his point. The bastardized interpretation of the commerce clause used by FedGov to outlaw drugs allows them to make ANYTHING illegal. Think- Bible, skateboards, corn syrup, heirloom seeds....anything.
A total rape of original intent.
And the war is on DRUGS, not the American people
The war on drugs is a joke. First, the idea that an inanimate object can be the adversary in a 'war' is retarded. The war is with people involved in selling and using drugs. Come on.
More importantly though, the war is an ABJECT FAILURE. Is there anywhere in the whole country, where anyone can't get any drug they want, day or night? The only effect of the war on drugs is rampant and violent abuse by the government of 4th amendment protections. And maybe making drugs a little more expensive.
“The only thing that I am advocating is a conversation about defense of self and nearby like minded neighbors. Why does communication frighten you?”
Punks like to run their big mouths and then when they get called on it, try to pretend they meant something else. I know you would never do that so I must have misunderstood what you wrote (below)
“Murder. Plain and simple. I am considering bringing this case up at the next neighborhood get together and seeing if there are other folks thinking like me that perhaps we might need to band together for protection not just against the normal crooks and whatnot but also against the armed gangs with badges.”
This was right before the post on militia’s. So the talk about “banding together for protection” “against the armed gangs with badges” must have been about forming a neighborhood watch, right?
It wasn’t the military - it was law enforcement! Huge difference sir.
Well, don't forget the direct and indirect costs. Here's a piece that covers the direct costs (the indirect ones such as lost productivity are probably far higher):
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/13/ap-impact-years-trillion-war-drugs-failed-meet-goals/
AP IMPACT: After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goalsAfter 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.
Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.
Since, most places, the threat comes from cops, that’d be the smart move.
My point is that their planning sucked.
It was law enforcement which likes to dress up and play soldier minus the discipline part.
Good point.
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