Posted on 05/16/2011 4:49:07 PM PDT by petitfour
TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - They are the best of the best responding to the worst situation in Tucson. Let's put it this way, when Police call 91-1 they get S.W.A.T. Little is known about the team members that make up Special Weapons and Tactics. They are the highly skilled and specially trained to handle every and any emergency.
David Ortiz, a Medic with S.W.A.T. says," The goal for the S.W.A.T. Team really is to save lives."
Before you sit side by side with the most elite part of the Tucson Police force on you to way to resolve a high risk situation, you start at the beginning, in training.
Detective Norm Scheopner with the Sex Offender Registration Tracking, says "You can never get enough training."
Patrick Nottingham, a member of S.W.A.T. explains some of the rigorous training. "Weightlifting and running of towers, changing the type of weight to get 50 refs and moving."
From the training room to the Tower. Running across the training compound the climbing six flights of stairs and back down again for more strength training.
Sgt. Robert Callan of S.W.A.T. says, "You gotta have a lot of determination. You gotta stick with it because once you go through the testing process and you get on the team it doesn't stop there it's just the beginning."
(Excerpt) Read more at kgun9.com ...
Of course guys that sit in cubicles all day can talk like that right?
Thanks for your thoughtful insight.
Sure, now try to tell my I’m wrong.
Right or wrong? How can one know? All you can do is throw out a trite phrase. When you can put your opinion into a collection of coherent sentences that we call a paragraph, I’ll certainly be happy to provide comments.
Right or wrong? How can one know? All you can do is throw out a trite phrase. When you can put your opinion into a collection of coherent sentences that we call a paragraph, I’ll certainly be happy to provide comments.
“When you can put your opinion into a collection of coherent sentences that we call a paragraph, I’ll certainly be happy to provide comments. “
Aww someone is feelin put upon. Its more than a ‘trite phrase’, its how these jackboots are trained to do exactly what they are doing.
Imagine how many lives they could save if they did police work instead of running up and down steps and lifting weights all day. But arresting criminals isn’t as sexy as shooting automatic weapons is it.
Wrong, most cops are two damn lazy to be in the military, and yes, I have seen the military entrance grades give to military people that become cops. Let’s just say they become cops because directing traffic does not take any brain power.
Now we’re getting somewhere. I was particularly struck by the weight lifting comment in the story. Exactly how often are well defined delts required for good police work, even in SWAT who must be expected to show some level of physical fitness. The words of these SWAT members reveal what they consider important and provide a window into the minds that pumped 70 rounds into the body of an innocent man.
“..David Ortiz, a Medic with S.W.A.T. says,” The goal for the S.W.A.T. Team really is to save lives.” ...”
Except when they bust in firing their Little German Machine Guns and their Little German Helmets and they kill everything that moves..
But hey...anybody can make a mistake, right?
The particular "breed" of recruitment of police (and fire for that matter) in the last 15-20 years have changed significantly, and not for the best. Granted, the gang and other violence problems, especially in AZ, have escalated significantly during that time period, so their level of intense training should go up accordingly.
That said, I'm reckoning many of the veterans (both active, and retired) can attest to their observations of this "new breed" who are on board with these special teams; especially working with some of these colleagues. Some have spoken up here on this thread, and I applaud them for being honest. Critical thinking is of utmost importance and priority, not reactionary.
I notice no argument to being cubicle bound lol.
The cubicle statement was a very childish statement on your part, my desk was known as the bosses office. And one of my old drinking buds was an under cover Lt., had the same opinion of SWAT as me.
Where? Mayberry?
...and I'll kill anyone who says otherwise.
I’m sorry, but I detest what SWAT represents.
Anybody drawing a government paycheck while wearing body armor and a helmet and carrying a full-auto weapon — that is a soldier of the king, not a cop.
I also have heartburn with the whole SWAT mission. Except for a long-ago bank robbery in California that turned into a firefight, I have never seen ONE incident that required SWAT firepower. Riot control does not require full-auto weapons, unless we’ve turned into Syria.
IMHO, your “local” SWAT team is just a paramilitary organization looking for a war to fight. Disband them all and call the National Guard if muscle is needed.
That constraint is even more important in the civil sphere. The powers granted to the police must never be abused and their duty to protect the public must stand paramount. I have seen too much evidence that some of our law enforcement officers have forgotten this, especially in SWAT type organizations who may lack proper leadership.
I congratulate you for your service. You have put your thumb on the problem, and your post gave me something to think over.
The question remains, how did it get so bad? Perhaps the new breed of police are taking war metaphors to heart, and taking them literally. The trouble is, a police force that literally believes they're fighting a "War on _______" drift into acting like they're an occupying army if they stop identifying with ordinary citizenry.
Have you noticed the less shocking cases of police overagressiveness get triggered when the police officer in question feels disrepected? It's uncomfortably close to how the gang-bangers act, even if the two are quite dissimilar in other respects.
Maybe the trouble comes with letting combat veterans into the police force. A soldier saying that wise-acre or peckerwooding civilians are "spoiled and undisciplined" works well because soldiers are sworn to protect all civilians from foreign aggression. Pegging disrespectful civilians in that way saves the ears, and doesn't change the underlying fidelity of the soldiers.
The trouble is, police officers have to divide civilians into two groups: law-abiding and criminal. The demarcation line is not at all obvious, except when the police officer catches a perp red-handed. Naturally, for officer safety as well as common sense, police are inclined to peg the dubious cases as criminal types.
A soldier doesn't have to divide civilians up; all of them are entitled to protection from the foreign foe. When "spoiled and undisciplied" mutates into "spoiled-ass civilians," though, police are tempted to throw undeferential citizens into the suspected-criminal group - and thus peg them as the enemy.
I could be wrong. In the olden days, a cop who believed "I am the law" was an accident waiting to happen. He was tempted to interpret criticism or disrespect of him, even as a person, as evidence of criminality. The same temptation went with criticism of his job performance, unless the complainer called him too soft on crime. That attitude had nothing to to with veterans entering the police force, and it long predates combat veterans going in to police work.
Good soldiers and good police officers are cut from the same cloth. Men and women who volunteer for a higher calling. Unfortunately, the bad ones also come from that same piece of cloth. The difference is leadership. Good leaders make good soldiers and good cops. Bad leaders turn good troops into bad ones. In this particular case, the Sheriff of Pima County, and the Chief of Police of Tucson are both prime suspects. They have both been on the news of late, and they are both very suspect.
It’s not working. We need to have a militia the way Israel does. Everyone goes in at 18 and when they come out, they bring their weapons with them and then do a month a year until they are old. That way, there are no “special” people with higher citizenships than the average Joe. Everywhere a cop goes, he sees allies instead of sheep.
I have a a high degree of respect for our armed forces, but -- being a veteran -- I would actually agree that low IQs are more prevalent in the military (and on SWAT teams) than in the total populace.
It is surprising how little IQ is required to be trainable to dumbly follow orders and to lug a ruck and rifle...
As one old sergeant told me, "Boy, you don't want to get out [of the military]. If you do, you'll have to compete with them people out there!"
SWAT members are the lowest-IQ ex-grunts who couldn't compete for real civilian jobs requiring intelligence and a work ethic...
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