Posted on 04/30/2011 6:38:31 AM PDT by macquire
Listening to Col David Hunt (Retired) on Fox right now explaining how the rules of engagement did not permit the Americans the Afghan pilot killed to have loaded weapons on base. The angry pilot simply shot them execution style after he left the meeting and retrieved a loaded firearm from his office.
Have any of you heard this before? I am outraged.
How do you fight a war with one hand tied behind your back?
Mark for later.
A son of a friend is a Coast Guard officer on duty on a cutter intercepting drug runners and such off the East Coast. He’s a gun enthusiast, went down with his folks and I to Front Site for training, etc, and yet the whole Coast Guard organization is VERY anti-gun in attitude and training. He’s disgusted with the whole thing.
On his cutter, intercepting potentially armed and hostile boats every week, only he and one woman, who hates guns, and can’t shoot worth a lick, are supposed to arm in the event of need. But, they can’t do so until it is proven that there are armed hostiles on the boat! Then they have to get the Captain to give an order to some other guy who has the keys to the gun locker, and he goes down and issues them the weapons after some sort of sign-out procedure. I forget exactly, but the gun is some lame model pistol, there are ammo restrictions, and the usual reporting/accounting hassles. He’s appalled, amused and scared to death all at the same time.
He wonders what he’s doing there. He wonders how much his likelihood of survival has been puposefully reduced, and to satisfy whom, and for what purpose.
The only upside to this sort of ROE nonsense is the wishful thinking that, when TSHTF, the LEOs and AD military turned against US citizens may be constrained by the same nonsense, and they will easily lose. Somehow, though, whereas Muslim terrorists, and Mexican drug soldiers, and Black looters, and Latino gang bangers are being offered such restrictive ROE, I doubt those of us White patriots will be afforded the same. WE are the real enemy in the minds of the elitist global powers, and we will be shown no mercy. That is the one war they will fight to win.
True Story: We were on a mission in then wayward Panama in early fall 89 when one of our LTC’s had an accidental discharge. He was a friend and our cots were next to each other. He was supposed to clear it as we entered the building into a 55 gallon barrel of sand. He forgot. He dropped the .45 and it discharged. The round when through his cot and the harmlessly into the air. Thank God no one was hurt. He probably should have been issued bad paper, but they protected him. All the shooters, though, were really in turmoil over that (though many of them had had bonehead moments in their own careers.)
I understand doing that in Panama, and I think the same safety danger exists in Iraq and Afghan, but I think the highly probably disloyalty of Muslims makes them much more the danger and not accidental discharges.
There should at least be a designated “force protection” roster INSIDE all work and quarters areas at all hours who are armed and dangerous and designated to deal with all threats.
This particular executioner then suicided himself, so there was no teaching him a lesson, but I think it still would have made him think had there been an armed and dangerous room instead of a perfectly safe one.
I just finished the backyard without shooting anyone.
Now I’ll go to the store.
I pray no produce is harmed while I am there.
It has been the modus operandi for well over a year. You’re just hearing about it?
1911’s are notorious for that.
He fouled up in not clearing it but he also fouled up by carrying it with the hammer down and one in the pipe.
Sometimes freepers can be such assholes.
Far worse than even that.
It's a CIC who's sympathies lie with the enemy. the enemy laughs and uses it to full advantage.
The blood of hundreds of our troops is on this so-called CIC's hands
I submit, sir, that we have a FR thread populated by a great many vets of MANY conflicts, AND a great many FReepers who walk around safely and responsibly in dangerous locales daily with a round in the chamber. I’ve done so 24/7 for years. No lives lost. In fact, the knowledge among the criminal class that there are more and more out there like me has drastically reduced deaths from criminal-perpetrated violence.
If civilians can do it, why not soldiers?
Do you really think fewer lives would be lost over there by having our armed forces seriously trained and ready and vigilant, and having the enemy know that was the case?
What war did you fight in that you won with such safety-conscious timidity?
Didn't we have four or five incoming while we were at the swords? I seem to remember some boom-booms that afternoon. (They're at it again lately, BTW.)
And that Brit club had great beer! Even though was a little bit cold outside.
Ah, yes....that was great fun.
We got pretty Tuborged that night. LOL
The only way to carry a 1911 for defense is a full mag, one in the chamber and cocked and locked. Need I say more?
“
Where’ve you all been for the past two years?
Anyone watching out for our troops? Anyone? Why should this story be a surprise to anyone? The new ROE that bamba put in place have provided “first shot” etc advantage to the enemy for 2 years now. The laugh and take full advantage of it.
Where have you all been? I know the media spikes as much as possible but the information is out there. I've posted incidents over and over for 2 years. Even freepers take little note.
I'll have to start putting O.J. or Jessica or Paris Hilton in the headline - maybe someone will read it by accident.
Here's one story for starters if any of you really give a sh*t. (Not aimed at YOU, Macquire)
http://cnsnews.cloud.clearpathhosting.com/news/article/60-us-military-deaths-afghanistan-have-o
Pinned down and dying because they were refused air cover in time due to the new ROE - they couldn't prove there wasn't a civilian in the area’ -
Four Marines killed - due to bamba’s new ROE’s calibrated to protect the enemy” (there was actual voice video of them called for help, “We're pinned won! “ etc, but it's evidently been scrubbed off the net.
“We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We've lost today,” Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter’s repeated demands for helicopters
“U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and tree lines — despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village.
This scenario has been repeated many times in the last two years.
Read/listen to more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/09/08/75036/were-pinned-down-4-us-marines.html#ixzz1L1kf8s3s
Below - our traitorous leaders gift the enemy with vital territory and weapons -
This firebase was not WON by the Taliban - our troops were just pulled out and forced to leave the enemy weapons they could use - and did use - against our troops. (My grandson fought for 15 months at this God-forsaken hellhole - watch his brothers bleed and die - and later they got the slap in the face by an enemy sympathizing CIC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WamBeYQeRvE
I could post many more examples but I've learned, over the past two years of posting on the results of bamba’s ROE - but I've found the attention span on this - even on FR - is very short. (Now a thread on O.J> or Paris Hilton, etc - will go on for hundreds of posts. Do I sound cynical? You betcha - with good cause.) Although this thread has garnered more posts, by far, than others on this subject. Waking up after 2 years?
Well and truly earned. and Thank You for your service.
Criminally, many of our soldiers fighting today will not have that deserved retirement - thanks to the new ROE.
What you said - in spades
I thought "Restrepo" for 15 long months while my grandson, who grew up in my house, (he's in the movie) fought there.
I 'thought' "Restrepo" when this traitorous CIC just handed it over, complete with ammunition/weapons, without a fight - to the Taliban - leaving them weapons and ammo they bragged they would - and did - use against our troops.
And none call it treason - I challenge you to cite where commanders in war just walked our solders off the battlefield and left the ground and munitions for the enemy to use against us?
Nowadays, airports, base mess halls, and CIA compounds are "combat zones". Somebody needs to be locked and loaded at all times. Telling trained military men they can't have bullets is malicious stupidity.
Nope. You’ve said it all.
I hope your Grandson is out of there.
The ROE there scared the crap out of me.
I’d have to respectfully disagree with you about the troops being better trained than police. Most personnel in the military don’t carry weapons day to day. Additionally,they might qualify on them once per year unless they’re in an MOS that requires it. The days of the average teenager being an avid outdoorsman trained as a marksman by their Dad are long gone. As a military retiree and a guy that’s been in Iraq since 2004, I can’t count the number of negligent discharged weapons....the military keeps weapons in green because otherwise, they’d have to actually conduct intensive training with everyone in the military to get them to an acceptable familiarity with weapons handling skills.
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