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To: Cronos
As said, Calvinism and Pentecostalism are sometimes actually both to varying degrees, and your overriding tendency is to treat them as monolithic (as regards uniformity). Pentecostalism overall holds to many common essentials, but typically allow for some limited degree of disagreements within themselves and among themselves. Roman Catholics, while also holding to core essentials, also have more room for interpretation than most realize.

You can see the Assemblies of God statement on judgment here, and general beliefs here, and the Church of God in Christ statements of faith here (these being the largest Pentecostal demons) and those of Calvary Chapel here Some hold to eternal security, such as Calvary Chapel (comparatively Pentecostal “light”) I know of no Pentecostal groups who simply believe that Christ's death restores the relationship to that before the fall at Eden but does not save them from eternal damnation, which would be inconsistent with their general denial of OSAS. Those who deny eternal torment and or place a 3rd (or more) spiritual place typically look to a material authority which is effectually superior to the Scriptures, and thus also can often claim a greater, in terms of scope if not quality, unity.

405 posted on 05/05/2011 9:00:29 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: Religion Moderator
Again -- ascribing motive and pretending to "read" minds -- the post says "your overriding tendency"
406 posted on 05/05/2011 9:03:23 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: daniel1212
Stop making this personal and stop trying to read minds. I said so very clearly on my post why xxx's OrthodoPresyterian C says that your beliefs -- I was only referring to two groups: yours and the poster's

At no stage did I say this was "monolithic" -- stop wrongly reading minds.

I specifically asked you to confirm certain points and pointed out all of the 5 points in opposition to the OPC specifically.

408 posted on 05/05/2011 9:05:49 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: daniel1212
....your overriding tendency is to treat them as monolithic (as regards uniformity)

There's an explanation for that - since Catholics expect it of themselves (even though very few try to pull it off), they think everyone else must think the same way:

"....If a Catholic rejects even one tenet of Church teaching then they are as a result declaring that the Church is not a holy institution and more importantly the Church’s belief in truth is wrong....Catholicism has a monopoly on the truth, it is not good enough to only believe in some of the Church’s teachings, we have to and are logically required to believe in all of the Church’s teachings."
-- from the thread What Is The Catholic Truth?

Within Catholicism, the definition of "outermost circle of Christianity" is the two-pronged "apostolic succession/papal submission" and "valid Eucharist" (transubstantiation). All other doctrinal issues, while not ignored, are secondary considerations. In this mindset, if you're a "real" Christian you must be Catholic. And if you're not Catholic, you're at best a member of an "ecclesial community" (Protestants), of a "defective church" (Orthodox), or not a Christian at all. Thus, the mindset of Catholicism towards the corporate exercise of Christianity is exclusivist by design. You're either (already) Catholic, or you're well outside the safety zone.

Now using that mindset, when Catholics look upon Protestant denominations, they believe that all denominations must similarly be fully exclusivist towards all other denominations. They think that Protestants exclude all denominations/members not their own from the full body of Christ, because that's how it Catholics themselves approach others. While some "Protestant" congregations and denominations (using those terms loosely) may act that way towards outsiders, the majority do not (and the creedal ones IMO less so).

I find it amusing that it was Calvinists and Presbyterians who came up with the "Five Fundamentals" (where the perjorative "fundamentalist" comes from) as an ecumenical tool to find common ground with Christians of all persuasions (including Catholics and Orthodox). I myself can find fruitful, common ground with any and all Trinitarian Christians (Trinitarianism being my personal "outermost circle" for defining Christianity. Sure, we might argue doctrine, we might argue about what are "doctrines of demons" or what is the "gospel of Satan", but those are inter-family squabbles as far as many of us are concerned. Catholicism and Orthodoxy cannot reach across the aisle and say the same, IMO.
-- Alex Murphy, September 17, 2010


413 posted on 05/05/2011 11:30:11 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed: he's hated on seven continents)
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