Mom Plays God: Brings Good from Evil (Excellent Video Link in the Article)

Townhall.com ^ | April 24, 2011 | Frank Turek

[BenKenobi]

Well from what we can see he sent his people Moses.

[Flying right]

Q: How many Christians would be willing to be personally damned to hell forever if by so doing all other people in the world would get to go to heaven?

I can name one – Jesus! Jesus was the person who was willing to be damned to hell. It was an awesome work, one that I unashamedly say I could not do. We don’t do good works to get into heaven or to avoid hell; this would be futile. Jesus did for us what we could not do.

[fr_freak]

I think a lot of the problems people have with the concept of (a Christian) God is that they live under the mistaken assumption that life on Earth is supposed to be some kind of pain-free utopia, and therefore any time pain occurs, it is a sign of a flaw in the design. However, if you start from the assumption that life on Earth is supposed to be painful, and that Heaven is the only utopia, then all of these questions about why God allows tsunamis and other such things are rendered meaningless. Think of life as a giant test - kind of like Basic Training for God's army. You either toughen up or you wash out. It is silly to ask why there is pain and evil on Earth, when that is the WHOLE POINT.

[Jeff Winston]

Well (ignoring that Christ wasn't actually thrown into hell fire, though he certainly didn't have an easy time in the crucifixion), the question was about Christians, not Christ himself, who according to the Bible is the incarnation of God.

It also had to do with willingly being eternally damned for the sake of others (which also isn't the case with Christ, as the Bible teaches that he was resurrected and will return as King of Kings.)

Doesn't the Bible teach that some people will be better off in heaven than others? And don't you think that this influences the behavior of Christians?

People are influenced by their believed self-interest. This includes Christians. That's not shocking. It's human.

[kenavi]

How about this?:

"Our Father who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name,
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy Will be done,
On Earth as it is in Heaven. ..."

Happy Easter, Joyous Passover

[Gondring]

You’re right on the mark. Even without an afterlife, though, a person may do good deeds via the self-interested motivation of feeling good about helping others.

[Gondring]

The accurate question is: could God make a man who had total free will but only choose the good?

That's what is being claimed earlier in the thread, for those who are in heaven.

[Gondring]

Suppose your granfather had been blessed with great fortune and was rich...and then squandered it...There would be nothing to hand down to you.

Heh...I know that all too well (not from my grandfather, but does a great-uncle count? ;-).

You can’t bang on the doors of the casino and demand your grandfathers money back because it should have come to you.

So when Jesus helped a crippled beggar, He could have said, "nope--your ancestor could have saved money for your care, but he didn't, so don't look at me!"?

I thought it was Godly to be charitable, yet here you're implying that God--who has unlimited resources and ability to give--is right to allow descendants of Adam to wallow wounded in the dirt?

Same thing with forgiveness. We are to give others many, many chances for redemption. I note there is no chance to redeem our Eden on earth.

The downtrodden have no right to your money, nor can they demand you give to them, yet Jesus taught it was right to give to them nonetheless. Why would we--made in the image of Him, told to emulate Him--expect less of Him?

[Jeff Winston]

I would say that such motivation goes even beyond the positive emotion one gains by helping other people, as significant as that is.

Everybody wants to feel important, to be important. Why is this? It's part of our human nature. Was it put there by God or by evolution? Some people believe the first, others believe the latter.

Whichever it was, when we make a positive difference in the world, we are important. Our contribution matters.

[Persevero]

“I note there is no chance to redeem our Eden on earth. “

Again, I totally disagree.

Jesus is our chance to redeem our Eden on earth. If anyone (poor or rich, great or insignificant, any race, any intelligence) put their trust in Him - they will be saved, and go to heaven; and at the end of the world God is making a new heaves and a new earth; Eden restored.

The gospel is offered to all.

[Secret Agent Man]

Those who are in heaven already proved to God they love Him and want to be with Him. Kind of why they are there. The test is over. They will never leave God’s presence again. You can take that to the bank because God tells us so in the bible, multiple places.

Are you really honestly asking this or are you just asking to be argumentative?

[Flying right]

Let me rephrase. I believe that Christ descended into Hades (Acts 2:31.) I do believe Hades/Hell are one in the same, though I’m not willing to die on that hill.
I don’t think I misunderstood you. I think you’re saying people, including Christians, can mostly act in their own self-interest. I am saying that Christ is the one who broke that mold. He didn’t endure His suffering to gain entrance into Heaven, to stay out of Hell, or to get a better place in Heaven.
I did not, and won’t, argue that Christians aren’t ever motivated by their own interests – of course we are! I am contrasting Christ with the rest of humanity.
In response to “Doesn’t the Bible teach that some people will be better off in heaven than others? And don’t you think that this influences the behavior of Christians?” The funny thing here is I never said anything to the contrary. I said we don’t do good works to get into heaven or to get out of hell.

[TASMANIANRED]

I’ll pray for your woundedness.

You work way to hard at misunderstanding.

[Gondring]

The test is over.

So the omnipotent father rescues his child, or the gives to the beggar, only after a test is passed?

Are you really honestly asking this or are you just asking to be argumentative?

I'm not just being argumentative. Do you not see the problem with the claims being made in the story? Do you not see that the idea of "testing" someone in need before helping him contradicts other teachings?

[Secret Agent Man]

God is not going to force anyone to be around Him for eternity if they spend their entire life on this earth deliberately rejecting Him.

Now that would be torture to these people, to be stuck around the people that love God and want to be around Him and enjoy being with Him, when that’s never been what these people wanted in the first place.

I meant “the test is over” not in the sense that it saves them, it is merely a recognition of the life they lived that showed they loved God, knew they needed Him and His gift of salvation, and that they trusted God and knew that He was working things for their good, whether personally their situation was good or bad at the moment.

If you’re just here playing devils advocate, I have no desire to debate this with you. If you’ve already made up your mind that God isn’t for you, you’re not interested in hearing anything but are just picking apart people’s answers to you. Either way I’m done with you. Take care.