Metro to study use of natural gas buses

Houston Chronicle ^ | April 5, 2011 | Mike Morris

[thackney]

Recently, my colleague Tom Fowler wrote about the use of natural gas-fueled vehicles locally, and efforts to expand that usage nationwide.

At its monthly board meeting last Thursday, Metro joined the discussion.

The agency's board agreed to cooperate with the Texas Transportation Institute and Capital Metro of Austin to study the use of compressed natural gas (CNG) in its bus fleet. Metro's share of the cost of the research is capped at $34,000.

Metro has been moving toward a diesel-electric hybrid fleet, with 338 of its 1,250 buses now hybrids, or 27 percent of the fleet, spokesman Jerome Gray said. By this fall, 438 of those 1,250 will be hybrids (35 percent), as the agency completes its annual 100-bus purchase and retires old vehicles.

Hybrid and natural gas technologies both reduce emissions, said Metro president and CEO George Greanias. If the study shows the costs also are comparable, the way forward will be a policy decision: Should Metro run several different types of vehicles or only one? Will the investment required to support CNG as a fuel be offset by lower and more predictable fuel costs, as compared to diesel?

[GeronL]

Hasn’t this already been “studied” and tried all over the country?? Why don’t these people send an email to the Dallas Area Rapid Transit people and ask how their natural gas buses have been doing??

Wouldn’t that be easier and cheaper??

[hal ogen]

If they made the phone call they wouldn’t be able to give tax payer money to their friends and relatives doing the “study”. Makes sense.

[Jeff Chandler]

I spoke to a mechanic who works on CNG buses and he claims that they are prone to breakdowns.

[Augustinian monk]

Obama should be leading the charge on this. Its cheaper, cleaner and North America has an abundant supply of it. And it would create a lot jobs building the infrastructure to support the conversion to natural gas but that would make too much sense I guess.

[sam_paine]

I spoke to a mechanic who works on CNG buses and he claims that they are prone to breakdowns.

I spoke to a doctor who treats mechanics who claim that CNG buses are prone to breakdowns and he says that those mechanics are prone to mental breakdowns.

There's nothing inherently different for a CNG system except the fuel system, which is often simpler than atomized liquid fuel delivery systems.

[thackney]

I have seen just the opposite claimed. The fuel is cleaner and the lube oil stays cleaner.

Move to natural gas vehicles accelerates
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2698089/posts

...Compressed natural gas vehicles also tend to have lower maintenance costs.

[VAFreedom]

just think, if they did not start the fire in Derweze back in 1971, (which is still burning today).... that is a lot of natural gas.

[Harold Shea]

Perhaps not the best choice they could have made when they decided to clear the gas by burning it off.

There is I believe a coal mine in Penn thats been burning
about as long as that too

[muleskinner]

The Santa Clara Valley Transit Authority(San Jose/Silicon Valley) has been running CNG busses around for years. Their bus line runnning over to Santa Cruz, about a 50 mile round trip, has been CNG powered for years. Hiway 17 is a fairly steep, dangerous road that reaches an elevation of 1800'. Power or reliability are not an issue with CNG. The engine oil stays cleaner much longer.

The fact is that the U.S. has hundreds of years of supply of natural gas and we wouldn't have to pay the Sand Countries a dime for energy.

There is really no issue. Just do it. And that goes for the big auto makers to offer CNG cars and trucks, too. The Euro's, esp. the Brits, have been doing conversions for years, since it's cheaper than diesel or gasoline.

[PA Engineer]

Agreed. It is a good option, however the fill compressors are probably the major cost. The buses can even run on dual fuel if necessary and switch on the fly. At $.50 a gallon, CNG is probably the most viable energy option we have in the US. You can get your own conversion kits here.

[thackney]

Lots of companies sell equipment for Natural Gas conversions and related equipment.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/natural_gas_related.html

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

The buses can even run on dual fuel if necessary and switch on the fly.

A diesel-electric bus should be able to operate on a lean CNG mixture, with just a pilot charge of diesel to cause ignition - that what you mean?

At $.50 a gallon, CNG is probably the most viable energy option we have in the US.

I'd think so - if indeed a gallon of CNG has the same BTU value as a gallon of gasoline. But given that they are saying that a CNG powered vehicle tends to have more limited range, I would expect it to be a lot less than that. But at $.50/gal, if you could get even a quarter as much mileage out of a gallon of CNG as a gallon of diesel I guess it'd still be an interesting proposition, tho.

[Jeff Chandler]

The mechanic's exact words were, "They converted to CNG for political reasons, but the buses run like crap. They require much more maintenance and they're always breaking down."

But then, what would he know? He's only the guy responsible for keeping them running. He doesn't appreciate the wisdom of armchair mechanics who indulge in fantasy.

Any time you utilize an exotic system over a ubiquitous system, the exotic system is going to be less reliable. That's common sense. And CNG powered vehicles are exotic in comparison to diesel powered vehicles.

[jaydubya2]

Jeff,

CNG is not really that exotic, many fleet vehicles have used CNG for years.

[Jeff Chandler]

Then maybe the Arizona climate has something to do with the problems with the Mesa fleet?

[chinachrislu]

To those who are interested in CNG converting: here is a web of DOT certified cng tank supplier: www.cng-tank.com