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To: Red6
There have been societies that are non Christian that were highly successful. While I am Christian and believe God, Jesus, what the Bible tells me, I also understand that there were other societies predating the new testament and thereafter that were successful without ever hearing the gospel: pre Christian/Constantine Rome, Egypt, some of the Chinese dynasties, in Japan.......... However, you will be hard pressed finding a successful society that lacks these attributes in mention. Often what happens is that a culture rises to power, looses the cultural traits that made them successful, and like the Greeks or Romans, fades into obscurity. Even though the Romans had adopted Christianity!

You are correct that there are cultures superior to other cultures. You are wrong to divorce culture from Christianity. Further, it is not important to be successful, it is important to be right. It is the wrong in others that gives us a permission to fight war on them. Wars therefore are justly used to correct a wrong; the party that has not the Truth may not use force in order to be "successful", -- it lost already.

But truth is Jesus Christ. Truth is a person, -- that particular person. It is not a thing or a thought: it comes from the mouth of God Who makes it the truth.

It is possible, in the historical perspective, to be a reflection of some truths and be not Christian. Such were many societies of the Antiquity, that now perished. Today, some truths are presented in an un-Christian setting. So, a Muslim society can approximate justice because Islam is, after all, a Christian heresy. Pagan Japan can as well, because their spiritual intuition even without the light of the Gospel, has lead them to some universal truths.

Rome perished as a pagan creation that grew into Christianity. Medieval Europe -- I include Byzantium -- was Rome's successor, which perpetuated the best of Rome and placed it in the proper, Christian setting. While we don't like to see in ourselves an extension of Medieval Europe this is what we are: we exist coasting on the values of the Middle Ages. We better not lose them. If we do, it won't be another "more successful" society to replace us: anti-Christ will emerge, and then the history will end.

Our role is unique because we are charged with the lamp of Christianity. If we act as God told us to, we shall be successful and truth will be with us. If instead we act so that to survive better for our own sake, we shall lose as a society.

I think, America is entering a neo-Pagan period. The itch to get into wars is a sign of that. We better reform ourselves and soon.

239 posted on 04/01/2011 6:06:44 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
you can't add Muslims to any one of them because then things go boom and decapitations do happen

Well, yes, but you cannot fight a religion, which Islam is, with physical weaponry. You fight them with truth. Which is, see above, a uniquely Christian thing.

240 posted on 04/01/2011 6:09:31 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Christianity generally and traditionally contains the elements that make a society successful but it's not something exclusive to our religion. Christianity through time has not always embraced those tenets that make a society rise to success and even today you see a divergence in areas, i.e. the acceptance of the LGBT community, with many the idea that pacifism is somehow Christian, the de-emphasis of marriage and children, the idea that people aren't to be held culpable for their behavior and conscious decisions.......... For example: http://www.elca.org/ (Adopted the liberal polemic and modified their message in order to attract people)

Success and wealth do not make one a good person/society. Nazi Germany was highly successful, they weren't very moral though. The eight aspects I figured out over time and traveling the world (Never taught to me in school because they just teach trash) describe certain aspects of a culture that make it powerful economically, culturally, militarily and politically. It does not make it good. Christianity is the part that if it's lacking allows a nation to take it's power and use it for bad things. The Germans unleashed all the power of a transportation system (railroads), modern chemistry (Zyklon B), information (they knew where they lived and who was what religion), propaganda (radio, print, movies) etc to an evil end resulting in the destruction of 6.5 million people in camps. The moral code is needed more than ever before in a modern technological society because of what we as an individual can do, how many we can communicate with, what we have access to......... A modern high tech society with no morals is a dangerous one. The “real” control doesn't come from an international body, the press, some convention/law, or the separation of powers..... it comes from a moral code. When the Germans decided to exterminate all the Jews, they did so lawfully, believe it or not. When we discuss abortion in America and the 50,000,000+ that have been performed since Roe vs. Wade, we must accept the fact that this happened with a watch dog media, the approval of all three branches of government, the US being a member of the UN, adhering to the human rights laws as outlined in these conventions........

I'm with you 100% in the need for morals. Ethics are the government, education system and business taught rules of behavior where no mention of the “G” word is made in our more secular and diverse society. The nuance meaning of ethics is the teaching of right and wrong without mentioning God or the Bible. The problem with ethics and a society that looses a moral compass is that it ALWAYS falls victim to a form of mob rule and hedonism. In the end, they believe in nothing other than what feels good. Look at the Germans, they don't even have the will to fight for their own freedom, republic...... After a while, if you rob people of morals, you make them into a nihilist and hedonistic society; hollow, purposeless, hopeless, they wonder without direction and principal through life. Life itself will be worth no more that the net value of minerals and chemicals found within the body, roughly $7.50 ( http://bloodindex.org/minerals.php ). Without morals and even discounting the lost souls, that powerful society might do some horrible things themselves or be apathetic in the face of evil.

” The itch to get into wars is a sign of that. We better reform ourselves and soon.”

The US has no option but to be involved. How we got to where we are. Our economy is far more complex than it was in 1776 - 1945 (Where we had long periods of isolationism). Prior to entering WWII we had an isolationist approach. One of the lessons learned was that it doesn't work. Post WWII three things happened:

*** Because of our victory over the Axis powers, our multi cultural society and lack of an axe to grind from the past (we can work with most others), but also our massive economic, political and military might, we were thrust into a leadership position. Not even by intent, post WWII we became a superpower by default and necessity. The Cold War essentially furthered this with the US creating organizations like NATO and ANZUS etc...... Even if we don't want to be this, we are de facto the leader of the western industrialized world to which even S. Korea, Japan, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand belong. Obama with his games of trying to deflect to NATO a war he instigated and ultimately we will back through NATO is a joke.

*** Our economy is infinitely more complex than even just 65 years ago. We today, like all others, are far more dependent on trade not only to sell our goods and services, but also to import those resources or goods and services we need to keep our high tech and industrial economy running. We as people also benefit from this trade directly in the choices, prices etc we have available to us in the stores. Our economy, like everyone else requires things like copper, gold, silver, platinum, oil, cesium........... Resources without which your technology/information, transit and industry based economy grind to a halt. Furthermore, this modern post colonialist economy with open markets depends on the regional stability in key areas where trade is conducted or resources come from, as well as open sea, land and air ways along which the lines of communications run.

*** With the end of the Cold War and new technologies the world grew both more unstable and more interconnected. The advent of the Internet, the fall of the wall and the general ease of movement by people, greater national/racial/religious diversities in near all western nations led us to where we are today. The enemy is among us and while some of the financiers, ideologues, etc might me in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, the soldier for this ideology wears blue jeans, a T shirt and wages his war by hijacking our aircraft. The threat today is asymmetrical, has no singular face, there isn't an enemy “doctrine” per say, a flag of a nation that this threat is coming from like with the Soviets/Warsaw pact.

The nature of conflict today is that we will be more but smaller brush fire type conflicts for a very long time. Through our disengagement and end of the Cold War not only did the lines get fuzzy, but formerly stable area's destabilized and the cards were all reshuffled as forced alliances diminished or the perceived threats disappeared. There wasn't the need to support the enemy of ones enemy as before and the world post Cold War is far more volatile. As crazy as it sounds, the Cold War sort of brought stability with it.

The average person has the tendency to throw his hands up and say, “What the hell, let's pack up and let them sort this out.” But that's unrealistic if you look at the consequences.

You can't turn this clock back. Reverting to a type of isolationism, is simply surrendering all influence we could have. Being involved doesn't mean we will win every battle, but we win some battles and in the end our involvement even in most places where we don't achieve our political objectives we typically still have some influence or impact. By being involved, we shape the world around us, which will impact us anyhow.

241 posted on 04/01/2011 9:34:41 AM PDT by Red6
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