Posted on 03/21/2011 5:05:27 AM PDT by aruanan
Sorry, but that's an unsubstantiated rumor. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Lucy, (or someone else here) do you have the tag-name for this soldier so that we can stop this inhibited liar and Soetoro worshiper spreading her cow manure here as usual aka SP & FINO???
I read his testimonial from Hawaii here a few times but did not saved them. Their friend Abercommie's empty handed search for the records in Hawaii is probably also unsubstantiated rumors as well as Tim Adams sworn affidavit, or Lucas Smith's 535 copies to congress, or Clarence Thomas smoke signals = EVADING.
BHO, Mhhhhh...Mhhhhh...Mhmmm!!!
LOL.Don't believe every "testimonial" your read on the net. It just might turn out to be the basis for...wait for it...an unsubstantiated rumor.
Their friend Abercommie's empty handed search for the records in Hawaii is probably also unsubstantiated rumors
As a matter of fact, yes, that's also an unsubstantiated rumor. Abercrombie indeed found the records.
as well as Tim Adams sworn affidavit,or Lucas Smith's 535 copies to congress, or Clarence Thomas smoke signals = EVADING.
Yeah, actually, all of those things are either unsubstantiated rumors or documents that contain such rumors.
Actually, no, that's not question. The question is whether there are any scholarships that Obama could have received as an Indonesian but not as an American to study as a full-time, matriculated undergraduate at Occidental.
One of you two (I forget which one) responded that the Fullbright was one of those. I responded that no, it's not, because the Fullbright is for graduate students and scholars.
Technically, I turned out not to be exactly right. Fullbright does have some undergraduate schoarships , even though the the vast majority of their scholarships are for graduate students. Unfortunately for the birther case, none of the undergarduate Fullbright scholarships pay for foreigners to enroll as full-time matriculated students at US colleges. All of the undergraduate scholarships are for short-term exchange programs lasting a year or less, or for travel to attend seminars.
Hence it is not plausible that Obama lied about his nationality to get a Fullbright scholarship to go to Occidental, because, simply put, there are no such scholarships that pay foreigners to enroll as full time, matriculated undergraduate students at US universities.
So yes, on a minor detail I was wrong and you were right. But in terms of the big picture, it turns out I was right and you were wrong.
I appreciate your response; tho I think we will have to disagree until barry actually allows a release of his transcripts. Problem in all this is due to barry’s refusal to allow the release of basically ANY DOCUMENTS relating to his life before running for President (like even some IL state records), you and I are speculating. Why won’t he release any documents?!
You are looking at current Occy scholarships info—2010, not from the 80s, the time period that is germane to the discussion.
You state it was harder to get scholarships back then—I found nothing to support that in a search. I did find that international student admission numbers are up since then. You state it is easier to get scholarships as a US student (what if you weren’t US or weren’t bright?) I found a number of websites listing various scholarships for internationals that are current, but nothing from the 80s. You imply that because I worked with State school admissions, my first-hand experience is not relevant.
At the time when I was working with foreign students, they were enjoying benefits not available to US out-of-state students. Yes, I worked for state school, but the private universities were/are very competitive with funding, and if they wanted to fill out demographic groups or bring in certain students, they can fund. Having a collegiate athlete, I am aware that private schools can fund D-3 athletes on a variety of scholarships that are not related to athletic ability—they get top quality athletes without athletic scholarships; private schools can be flexible if they want certain students or demographics. I have no idea what Occy’s endowment situation was in the 80s, how many international students received funding or how they were funded.
If you have studied barry’s campaign, you may be aware that early in the campaign, there were a number of foreign backers that he met in college. Theories abound that they may have bankrolled some of his education. We won’t know because the records are sealed. Why?
Regarding scholarship money, it has always been available for very bright US students - the “35 on the ACT” crowd. The waivers were for “the rest of the students”; it is possible that barry may have gotten more favorable admission status (not financial aid) as an international if he did not have a stellar high school career. Again, we don’t have his transcript from high school or college, so it is all speculation.
As I said there was a push back in late 70s to bring in international students. Not so sure that is the case today—The number of foreign students attending has increased over the years. I can link that if you want...
You state: This was no different in 1980. If anything, it was even harder back then for a foreigner to get aid.
Are you sure? You state this as fact, but is it? I can find no information to support that. BTW, I attended universities in 4 states in the late 70s early 80s, and worked at one. I can’t agree that it is no different than in 1980. College and college funding is hugely different today.
Again, guess we will have to disagree, because showing me Occy 2010 web page does not sway me. Your profile indicates you wish to debunk birthers. With that as your mission, you have already developed your template into which you are fitting the pieces. I have no such mission, so I am willing to entertain these possibilities—tho I am not stating everything as if it is absolute fact. I say it is plausible. Anyway, if barry would release the da** transcripts and records, this would be moot. If these theories are all smoke and no fire, why does he fight so hard to keep them sealed—being so transparent and all?
Good day.
Barry isn't fighting the release of his transctips. Since they are protected by privacy laws, there is no need to fight anything. Like Bush, he is simply exercising his right to decline to release them. (That someone managed to illegally leak Bush's without his permission doesn't change this fact).
Now since it is you who want to force him to release a private document he is under to obligation to release, the burden of proof is on you to show that there is a compelling reason to release it.
You have not done this. The best reason you can provide is the allegation that he registered as a foreign student. If you want that to stick, the burden is on you to show that it is even plausible. The burden is not on me to show that it is implausible.
If you really wish to assert that it is plausible he registered as a foreigner in order to benefit from a scholarship program restricted to foreigners, at a bear minimum you would have to demonstrate:
1) That there in fact were scholarships at Oxy that it was easier for foreigners to get.
2) That it would have been easier for Barry to get these scholarships than the massive amounts of aid available only to US citizens and permanent residents (i.e. Pell grants, subsidized student loans, etc).
You, and the rest of the birthers, have utterly failed to do even the first of these.
No birther to this date has come up with a single example of a scholarship that Barry could have gotten as an Indonesian to study at Occidental that he couldn't have gotten as a US citizen.
As such, there is no reason to even suspect that the allegation about his registration status is true.
Tho I disagree with pretty much everything you said, I do agree that you seem obcessed with debunking birthers. IMHO (note OPINION not stated as fact), it is you who have lost the forest thru the trees because of your stated bias on your profile:
“Recently I’ve become somewhat obcessed(SP) with debunking birthers. Not sure why, but I find it somewhat addictive.”
I don’t have to prove anything—I have no agenda...You were the one who initially stated a number of assumptions/opinions as fact and said this and that is not plausible—not me. I actually have some first-hand insight into 80s college admission of foreign students; you don’t. Unless you worked for Occy admissions or fin. aid in the 80s, you have no concrete information to offer, so you are way out of your depth to state as fact that which you don’t know or criticize anyone who thinks barry might be withholding pertinent information.
I don’t have to prove anything, I never said I was a birther—YOU did. I said I am open to possibilities, my mind is not made up—I have no agenda, stated or otherwise.
You are rather accusatory, and you act as if you are providing facts when you are merely sharing an opinion—fine share it as such.
You state I have to assert that he got a scholarship. I stated before that it may have been about admissions, not scholarships. You have no better opinion than anyone else because he won’t release the documents.
Speaking of opinion, I believe barry is indeed hiding his documents because he has been asked to provide them and refuses. He could very easily release any and all information and has not for 3+ years. He has hired attorneys to fight the eligibility issue and his birth certificate release. Yes, he is working to hide documents.
You state on your profile: “Bottom line: there is simply no way any sane person can believe that Barack Hussein Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii. This birther stuff is a dead end and a waste of time and energy.
My fellow conservatives, let’s focus our energy on attacking him for legitimate reasons, like his attempted government takeover of health care, his borderline treasonous decision to try KSM in a civilian court, and his attempt to destroy our economy via cap and trade. These are real issues we can win on. The birther nonsense makes us look like nuts.” Wow!
So Trump, Limbaugh, and anyone else who would like barry to release his documents or to even explore the issue is a nut. I think I will side with the nuts then and keep my open mind, thank you.
You have a right to your opinion but you don’t have a right to tell anyone what they should and should not focus on. I find your mission very destructive; more importantly a colossal waste of time which I dont have. So adios.
I have to agree with everything you said. Regardless of where Obama was born, or his student status, there’s no reason to NOT release the records. And the fact that he has specifically fought, and wasted taxpayer dollars fighting, against the release of those documents speaks volumes.
It’s one thing for someone to disbelieve the “birther” movement. It’s quite another to actively support the deliberate concealment of documents that would assert Obama’s eligibility. Anyone who can see Obama going to great lengths and expense to conceal those documents and pretend he’s doing it for absolutely no reason, is either a complete moron or has an agenda.
I happen to believe Obama was born in Hawaii, but he has acted like a man with something to hide. And so I’ll indulge him by believing he has something to hide, even if it isn’t what some people suspect it is.
News to me. Do you have the data on this? Anyone? Guy still alive? Been interviewed recently? Could be a breakthrough. .
Yell it from the rooftops, tell it to everyone you know, write letters, give interviews - let it echo throughout the nation until it is heard:
What is he Hiding and Why?
Just a simple question from a guy in the neigborhood - and since he's POTUS, we deserve to know.
And so I’ll indulge him by believing he has something to hide, even if it isn’t what some people suspect it is.
- and since he’s POTUS, we deserve to know.
From what I understand, the only documents released were a forged selective service registration card, the questionable short form, and the Indonesian Elementary school document dug up by Sun Times reporter during his (State?) Senate campaign in which his mother registered him as a muslim. So we have no school records admission, academic, financial, few legal records, no medical records from the smartest man on the planet running the most transparent administration in the history of the Republic. Oh, and please someone correct me if I am wrong, the few friends that knew him “back in the day” were for the most part foreign.
I
Are you REALLY so dense that you think you can just enter a foreign country and then register your kids in the school system that requires citizenship without showing legal proof that you and they are a citizen of that country, ROTLMSO???
This statement qualifies you to receive the FReeper "Cod Fish Award." But it's also no secret here on F.R. that you sure are a substantiated LIAR with a proved Soetoro agenda!!!
Obozo went to Occidental on a Fullbright scholarship.
good job!!!
“Yeah, actually, all of those things are either unsubstantiated rumors or documents that contain such rumors.”
This looks very familiar, so which of the three is YOU???
Most likely the female “animal” @ top left!!!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2692203/posts?page=83#83
Would you mind to give this lying individual a Marine lesson of the truth???
"I read his testimonial from Hawaii here a few times but did not saved them.
LOL.Don't believe every "testimonial" your read on the net. It just might turn out to be the basis for...wait for it...an unsubstantiated rumor."
Thanks to some other smart FRiends, here you have it!!!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2692203/posts?page=163#163
“It is well known that many children, particularly from the Philippines, China, and Japan were routinely issued Hawaiian Birth Certificates on the say-so of relatives claiming “Home Birth.” Google up some Hawaiian court clerks, attorneys, hospital officers, county registrars, etc. and ask them!”
Better yet, check out the Wiki entry on Sun Yat Sen:
“In March 1904, he obtained a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,[9] issued by the Territory of Hawaii, stating he was born on November 24, 1870 in Kula, Maui.[10]” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen
All it took was for a relative to be willing to lie on his behalf.
Two points. First, it was a private school, and hence not part of the school system. Second, Indonesia did not require citizenship of even its public school students. That is another birther myth.
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