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To: Phoebe From China
Well, I have to say that you seem to have an unbreakable train of thoughts. But I’ll try giving it a shot anyway.  LOL.  No problem.  Let's see what you've got.

First thing first, I am NOT a communist, and I do not work for any Chinese governmental agency or communist office. And besides, it might come out quite a shock to you, but there ARE civilized people out there, even though they may have a difference of opinion with you.  You know, I expected you to admit you were working for the Communist leadership of China.  That was a joke in case you didn't get it.  As for civilized people disagreeing with me, they do so frequently.  They generally don't on these topics though.  Just thought I'd mention that in case it meant anything to you.  A lot of non-thinking people agree with what you have posted here though.  Thought I'd mention that in case it meant anything to you.

Now back to our topic about your overseas military bases, I admit that China was one of the direct beneficiaries of your Smallboy and Fatboy. It was you guys who speeded up the process of the ww2 in East Asia, and brought an end to Japanese Militarism. However, having your troops station in Japan nowadays can not be easily explained as a precaution against Japanese military threat to the region any more. If it is, then what are the American-Japan joint military exercises about? A country’s tactics can be different under different times. And Japan has become America’s ally nowadays, whether Japan is willing to, or forced to. So I’d still say the military bases there are majorly for your own military purposes. It is majorly a tool by which America uses to contain Russia and China.  Has it dawned on you that Japan doesn't have nuclear weapons or the missiles to deliver them to the cities of China?  Evidently not.  Does China have nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver them to Japanese cities?  Well yes it does.  If it weren't for the United States presence in Japan, you would be looking down the barrel of a Japanese nucelar threat.  Duh!

As for Korean peninsula, you are saying that you are in South Korea to protect them from North Korea’s aggression. Well, ok, that’s surely one way to look at it. But if you ask the South Korean protestors who were strongly against American-Korean joint military exercises last winter, you would get a different answer. Not to mention those Korean protestors who protest against many other things that American soldiers have done in South Korea. Anyway, the point is you think you are doing a favor for the South Koreans here, but as it turns out, the benefits you get from the South Koreans outweigh the ones you bring them.  Spoken like a diehard Communist party member.  What group do you think those many protesters are members of?  Hmm, the Communist party perhaps?  You're really showing your true colors here, and I must say, I do appreciate it.

Any how about the other hundreds of American military bases which are scattered all over the world, even where there are no conflicts or warfare? Any better explanation than hegemony military purpose? Now you are close to or already being capable of striking any corner of the globe. And you are concerned about us building up military force? Well, welcome on board of feeling threatened.  Those bases are on leased property from the nations where they are located.  They are located there to stop military adventurism from whatever nation happens to wish to do such things.  And China is fast becoming one of them.  So you tell me bright path, who is putting your nation in danger?  Is it the U. S., or is it the expansionist driven Communist Party of China?  China is quite successful without expansionism.  You would have me believe that the United States treatment of China has resulted in irreprable harm to it.  The United States almost single-handedly propelled China into the present, gifting it with about fifty years worth of technology, and you're response is that the United States is a bad player.  Talk about your clueless comments.

And you know on what I agree the most with you? Everything happens for a reason. However, some reasons we can understand and willingly accept, while some not. At least not yet. When you started a war for all the good reasons, you might end the terror from one dictator, but you created a new terror on the other hand, even though that wasn’t your first intention.  Nice try, but the topic was whether we were doing the deed to protect the citizens of another nation or not.  You said we were doing this for our own benefit.  You were wrong, and I proved it to you.  Now you seek to change the topic to one of possibly setting up another problem government.  We'll have to deal with that should it take place, but your premise that we did this for our own benefit was dead wrong.

Think about the three innocent Chinese journalists who died in a “miscalculation” of bomb attack in Yugoslavia in 1999.
Yeah, Chinese "journalists" were frequently located in Yugoslavia weren't they.  Thanks for the homor break.  Their presence in Yugoslavia had nothing to do with the downed U. S. aircraft there, and picking through the rubble for technological discoveries, did it.  Think about those innocent lives that were taken in Haditha in Nov. 2005, by USMC, intentionally or mistakenly.  Yes, those Marines fired on people who were firing on them.  Wow, how could they?  When soldiers come under fire in a war-zone, they're going to respond.  Who knew?  Tell me, what's your explanation for unarmed people being gunned down with AK-47s, and runover by tanks?  And think about the innocent civilians who were wrongly killed by NATO in Helmand, on March 25, 2011. They are not a part of terrorism, and they don’t deserve to die.  There are a number of things that happend in and around Helmund on March 25th, 2011.  If you want to score points, you're going to have to be more specific.  We all know that there are more such examples of so-called fighting terrorism.  Yep, and each of them has a very reasoned explanation.  Unfortunately die-hard Communists are destined to try to eploit them for advantage.  Again, who knew?  And this has caused a chain of side effects, say anti-America movements and more terrorists. Yes, attacking terrorits networks will cause some people to despise the U. S.  And who might that be, terrorists and their sympathizers?  By this point in our conversation, it's quite evident you hold animosity based on U. S. actions.  Why would you be upset that the U. S. was taking action against terrorists trying to take down Western nations?  That’s one of the reasons why your troops are still trapped in Iraq and Afghanistan. The reason our troops will remain there, is the same reason they remain lots of places.  They do so to maintain stability.  Anyhow, I just wish the commanders and soldiers understand that fighting terrorism does not give them a green light to kill as they wish. If they do, then they are no different from terrorists per se.  I hope you understand that I have been around long enough to realize what type of person makes the types of arguments you have here.  A person that opposes terrorism against the West, isn't going to accuse the troops who are trying to combat terrorism, with terrorists who conduct attacks almost exclusively against private citizens.  The troops try to root out terrorists and at times do create some collateral damage.  The terrorists almost exclusively attack civilians, and sometimes kill troops too.  How many large car or truck bombs have U. S. troops detonated in the market places of the Middle-East or Asia?  Please, link me to the reports.  I'd like to see them.

These comments are straight out of the Communist play-book.  Either you work for the Communist party and know where the arguments came from, or you have been spoon fed these biased attacks and have incorporated them into your belief system in error.  Either way it doesn't speak well of you.

And do you benefit from these wars in the name of fighting terrorism? You do. And so do China. If I didn’t recall it wrong, China was the first one to send Oil Company to Iraq.  Okay, let's talk about Iraq and what the U. S. has gained from entering it and stabalizing the nation.  The U. S. has lost over 4,000 men, spent hundreds of billions of dollars, and obtained almost nothing in return.  The U. S. now obtains 1/20th or 3.98% of it's total petrolium imports from Iraq.  And those petrolium imports are paid for at the going rate.  LINK  Since the U. S. engaged Hussien and the terrorists in Iraq, there have been no further attacks on U. S. soil, and for about the last five years, there has been far less terrorism globally.  Now, you tell me.  Did the U. S. benefit exhorbitantly, or did many nations benefit from the efforts of the U. S. and some of it's allies in Iraq?  In fact, as you stated, people that opposed U. S. intervention in Iraq have also benefited.

The U. S. is not a global threat.  The U. S. has been a global benefactor for the last 70 or so years.  Instead of lamenting it's presence around the planet, China would do well to reconsider what it thinks of as U. S. dominance.  China has an Islamic problem on it's Western border.  One would think it could but two and two together, and realize one less terrorist to the U. S., would be one less threat to China as well.  Instead we see China acting as if things would be a lot better if the U. S. retreated to it's mainland, and it took over as the world's potecter.

As for the reason why China abstained from voting on Libya, they say it’s because we do not intervene in other nations’ internal affairs. But as a matter of fact, only the policy makers know the real reason. No matter what, I am sure it is out of the best consideration for our national interests. So I wouldn’t say China was the bigger image here. As after all, lying politicians are the same to nature.  Okay, we're fairly close to agreement on this issue.  I still can't help thinking that China objects to U. S. intervention because it's doesn't mind seeing Westerners die at the hands of terrorists. Here's some food for thought.  What nation was the U. S. occupying or oppressing that caused it to be attacked on 09/11/01?  What would China have done if it had been attacked in that manner?  Would it have just smiled and said, "Oh well..."?

On a lighter note, quite different from you, our(Chinese people’s) hatred and disgust is on parents who prefer boy baby over girl baby, when it comes to the topic of one-child policy and abortion.  Wow, I am impresssed.  That was a much lighter note.  Yes, China has the one-child policy plan. But have you studied the details of this policy? Of course you haven’t.

When first hearing this policy, a huge number of westerners would think wow, one family could have one child only? This was pure inhumanity. But they barely know that this one-child policy was aiming at controlling the population of Han Chinese (We have 55 minorities here). Those minorities could give birth to a second or even third or fourth child. As for us Han Chinese, if we are living in the countryside, we could give birth to a second child. If the first child is girl, we could give birth to a second child. If the couple is divorced, they could give birth to another child with the new spouse. So technically, this policy should not be addressed as one-child policy at all, because the majority of families here had more than one child back to the days when this policy was first carried out, since those who lived in the countryside surpassed the ones who lived in the city at that time.

And I am not trying to cover the government’s wrong-doing, but the real ones to blame are parents who prefer boys. Most parents and grandparents(father’s side) prefer their first born child/grandchild to be a boy, so they could have someone carry on the family name and family descent. It is the cruel parents’ decision to abort the infant girl baby in many cases, not the governments’, if you are interested to know. And if you don’t believe me, you could try to dig a bit about Chinese culture regarding male priority vs female inferiority. Or you could ask a Chinese-born friend of yours, if you have any.

Look, I've read about the block mothers in China.  We both know what their duties are, so please lay off the propaganda.  Trying to lay this off as evil parents, and not government policy is very dishonest.  You and I both know that.

Oh, and by the way, there are 8 million or so communists in China, and I challenge you to “encounter” one on western forums, one who is interested in debates and fluent in English. They are either busy attending vacuous conferences or on their way to conferences, lolis.  Please remind me what party people have to be a member of to become public officials.

I probably should call it a day here, and nice to know you didn’t have any hatred towards me. You sound pretty serious and intimidating though, haha.  Well, that's okay.  I don't mind sounding intimidating to people who are pushing the Communist/Leftist party line.  As for hating you, I honestly don't.  I could easily accept a Chinese person as a friend, if I were sure they weren't trying to game me.

Have a nice day.  You too...



24 posted on 03/28/2011 1:00:43 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (The only thing higher than Obama's chin, is his ass facing West five times a day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]


To: DoughtyOne

Ok I get it. As a “non-thinking, dishonest Chinese communist propaganda”, who is die-hard by the way, I should simply dig a hole and jump in to save the embarrassment. I’m almost running out of words, when facing this kind of false charges. Frankly speaking, this wasn’t the first time people accuse me of being a “communist propaganda”. And instead of repeatedly denying it this time, I beg you to help me inform Hu Jintao or whoever in charge to send me a fat paycheck, since I am “working so hard for them”. lol Well, in case you didn’t get it, this was supposed to be a sarcasm, as well as the “ vacuous conference” comment.

Seriously, you guys always take a dissident Chinese as a communist propaganda. But you never wonder why educated Chinese people are having problems dealing with western doctrine, AFTER we open up our minds and get in touch with the outside world. I am one of those who are stuck between Chinese political system and western ones. We don’t like our current government, due to its massive corruption, misconduct, nonfeasance, to name just a few. And we don’t like your political systems either, because you are nothing like advertised, despite of your defenses.

And I guess there is no need to continue our discussion, as everything I say has been and will be interpreted as communist propaganda. Even my choice of words is a hint of communist book excerpt, lol. Ok, lesson learnt: do not use COMMUNIST WORDS next time you debate with someone.


25 posted on 03/28/2011 10:22:23 PM PDT by Phoebe From China (I believe we've arrived at another quintessential "Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock" moment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies ]

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