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Is Russia Helping Taiwan Build Submarines?
The Jamestown Foundation ^ | March 10, 2011 | Jyh-Perng Wang

Posted on 03/12/2011 10:02:57 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

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1 posted on 03/12/2011 10:03:10 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: patton; Doohickey; CPOSharky; SunkenCiv; neverdem; sukhoi-30mki
Well, I hope not. I don't like Russian “help” going to ANY person ANYWHERE.

But Russian “help” and technology is better than nothing, and Barack O’Soviet sure as hell is not going be an ally against Red China's coming invasion.

Kilo boats are pretty good, not as bad as most Russian designs. Be best if Taiwan would just buy 30 or 40 of those critters right from the Russian docks. That way, Russia can't use them against us.

2 posted on 03/12/2011 10:08:58 AM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Put a Stirling engine in it, and you got one heck of a boat...


3 posted on 03/12/2011 10:12:21 AM PST by patton
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Hussein, the Dems, American TV, American unions are far more evil than Putin or Russia. Ditto idiots who watch TV and enable/empower hussein with their drooling viewership.


4 posted on 03/12/2011 10:25:48 AM PST by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Taiwan has a right to defend itself.

If you were a US Ally, would you really want to bet your survival that a bankrupt USA, in hock to the Chinese, with Obama as President, would come to your aid?


5 posted on 03/12/2011 10:31:00 AM PST by PGR88 (I'm so open-minded my brains fell out)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Russia may not be totally daft after all.

Anything that signals it may be aware of the Chinese threat on it’s border, would be of some note.

Russia has been very foolish to trust the Chinese leadership. It should be cultivating closer cooperation with the West.

Of course today, who would be stupid enough to try to cooperate with a nation that is committing suicide?


6 posted on 03/12/2011 10:31:13 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Here's the proof of Obama's U. S. citizenship: " " Good enough for our 3 branches...)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The US NAVY doesn't want to sell diesel subs to Taiwan because of the cost.

They only run around $400 million apiece, vs. $2-billion each for a nuclear sub. If we start producing these, it's likely that the Liberals in Congress will start demanding that our NAVY also switch to the cheaper diesel units and stop buying nuclear subs as a way to save money.

The suggestion that Taiwan is now looking towards Russia as a means to speed up a US sale approval is also moot. Taiwan has so much political upheaval that it's no wonder that it's taking them so long to make any decision.

As for the issue about the barbies or the maintenance, that's also just a smoke screen. They could just pay the US to build the barbies or do the maintenance on the subs.

As it stands, Germany already has a commercial line that produces diesel subs.

7 posted on 03/12/2011 10:42:46 AM PST by Beaten Valve
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To: patton; Robert A. Cook, PE

The Italians have developed a fuel-cell AIP system for a derivative of the Russian Amur class sub which they are jointly marketing. It’s smaller and far more advanced than the aging Kilo and would be better suited for Taiwan.

http://www.fincantieri.it/CMS/Data/prodotti/000022.aspx?cms640909ff=83a48fe86aef4ded9e40917192463c04&menu_key=e851a3f1&CMSKEY_categoria=VESSEL&CMSKEY_tipo=Submarine&CMSKEY_armatore=&CMSKEY_anno=&CMSKEY_sottotitolo=


8 posted on 03/12/2011 10:44:36 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: Beaten Valve

Typo:

Barbies = harbors

(I missed it on the auto spell check)


9 posted on 03/12/2011 10:46:14 AM PST by Beaten Valve
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To: DoughtyOne
Russia has been very foolish to trust the Chinese leadership. It should be cultivating closer cooperation with the West.

Russia did try, even back in the Soviet days. They did all the preps for an all out attack on China and asked the US to join in. The US backed off, warned China and told the Russian it would ally with China.

It is in one of Nixon's books.

10 posted on 03/12/2011 11:09:08 AM PST by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

They don’t mention the price...


11 posted on 03/12/2011 11:13:49 AM PST by patton
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To: patton

It’s still more of a paper product!!


12 posted on 03/12/2011 11:17:18 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: Beaten Valve
They only run around $400 million apiece, vs. $2-billion each for a nuclear sub. If we start producing these, it's likely that the Liberals in Congress will start demanding that our NAVY also switch to the cheaper diesel units and stop buying nuclear subs as a way to save money.

We should be building our own diesel boats anyway...we simply don't have enough nucs, and diesel boats would be excellent for our own coastal defense. They can't replace nucs, but they do have value and application, and at one fifth the cost, we can build many more of them.
13 posted on 03/12/2011 11:23:53 AM PST by rottndog (Be prepared for what's coming AFTER America....)
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To: Hardraade

I don’t doubt that may have taken place. Accepting that it did for conversations sake, it seems to me that would have been a considerable miscalculation on Moscow’s part.

Nixon played the China card in no small measure to counter the Russian machine at it’s pinnacle. How could Moscow then assume that the U. S. would help it destroy our proverbial ‘ace in the hole’?

Further, if you think about it, there’s another down side to even breaching the subject.

Nixon looking for a way to offset Russian military intentions, gets it confirmed from the Russian leadership itself, that his ploy has worked.

Not brilliant on behalf of the U.S.S.R. IMO.


14 posted on 03/12/2011 11:42:50 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Here's the proof of Obama's U. S. citizenship: " " Good enough for our 3 branches...)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; ...

Thanks Robert A. Cook, PE.
15 posted on 03/12/2011 11:43:12 AM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Beaten Valve
I disagree, the reason we have not produced the diesel subs...is frankly because we don't have the capacity any longer to do it as economically as our competition...especially Russia.

And Germany, and also France and Sweden, btw, which can make them far cheaper than we, albeit their pay is higher, will not sell any to Taiwan, not wanting to stand up to and confront Chi-Com intimidations...

An interesting article for this subject and the real threat poised from 2006 is here.

16 posted on 03/12/2011 12:06:13 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: DoughtyOne

Not brilliant, but at that point the Soviets were in a panic about China. Nixon relates that the Russians had even lined up tactical nuclear forces near the China border to use in the attack.


17 posted on 03/12/2011 12:47:05 PM PST by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: Hardraade

Wow, they were ready to go.

I have always thought that Russia was misplaying it’s cards.

Look at China today, and reflect back on the Cold War years, and how Russia could have played it’s hand differently. Russia, if it had pulled it’s collective head out, could have been China (economically).

Today Russia could cozy up with the West. It could do much more than it does to make it clear it wants to be a good solid global player. But instead, it sends signals that it is in bed with China.

And what is that going to accomplish, when China is a bigger threat to it, than it is to the U. S.?

If China were to destroy the U. S., it would be about ten minutes before China focused on Russia, to devour it. And yet, Russia plays along like the Gomer Pyle of global dynamics.

If Russia were to cozy up to the West, it could easily signal to China that it’s planned treachery wasn’t worth it. It could become a more reasoned global player.

So Russia not only screws itself, it’s helping to make the world more unstable. It does the same thing with regard to the Middle-Eastern Islamic states. Iran, Syria, Russia is juggling hand grenades with the pins pulled.


18 posted on 03/12/2011 1:38:48 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Here's the proof of Obama's U. S. citizenship: " " Good enough for our 3 branches...)
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To: Beaten Valve

Maybe so, but diesel subs are really only useful for short-range, limited duration applications — like defeating a blockade fleet in your home waters. Think of them as a mobile minefield.


19 posted on 03/12/2011 3:22:24 PM PST by Tallguy (Received a fine from the NFL for a helmet-to-helmet hit.)
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To: Tallguy; Beaten Valve; Doohickey; CPOSharky
Maybe so, but diesel subs are really only useful for short-range, limited duration applications — like defeating a blockade fleet in your home waters. Think of them as a mobile minefield.

Like sailing from Germany to the US east coast and gulf coast and sinking lots of tankers and merchants off of Florida? That kind of short range blockade of your home waters? 8<)

Or sailing from Australia to Japan and sinking their merchants in their home waters?

20 posted on 03/13/2011 8:24:01 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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