Posted on 02/23/2011 8:10:07 PM PST by marktwain
Four Americans, including a Seattle couple, aboard a private yacht hijacked by Somali pirates are dead this morning, and readers reacting to the CBS story on-line are wondering why any of the pirates were taken alive. Likewise, after the Seattle Times caught up with the story at about 7:25 a.m., it didn’t take long for readers to suggest that the pirates be taught a lesson.
The incident is hardly a first in that part of the world. Somali pirates have been emboldened by the willingness of some victims to pay outrageous ransoms. Reports indicate that negotiations were underway between the pirates and a U.S. warship nearby.
Today’s dead are identified as Seattleites Bob Riggle and Phyllis Macay, along with Californians Scott and Jean Adam, who owned the Quest, whose home port may be Marina del Rey, where the Adams lived.
Then we should bring the Navy in and blast those Somalian (sic) MF's back into the stone age (or farther back into it). If a Somolian (sic) ship is at sea and is not fishing, blow them up and ask questions later.—Seattle Times reader
Early in the Obama administration, Navy SEAL marksmen took out some pirates holding a merchant captain hostage, but one can now conclude that message was insufficient to convince pirates that attacking boats or ships on the high seas, sailing under the American flag, is a bad idea. It will be up to the administration to take appropriate action. Examiner readers are encouraged to comment below, explaining what you think would be appropriate.
Meanwhile, what can private vessels do to discourage pirates or defend against them?
This column checked on line and it appears that it is legal – with some red tape, naturally – to carry arms aboard.
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
“I think that the legal problems arise only when folks sail into territories or waters subject to the laws of other sovereign nations. There probably aren’t any legal problems in international waters.”
There is the rub! Very few sailboats can carry enough supplies to circumnavigate the world in international waters without putting into port where arms are illegal. But then, what is the point in that? SHEEESH (Rubes!)
JC
“If Obama had any balls at all he should get a group of Navy Seals to board a 50 foot sailing yacht with a couple of decoys on the upper deck and sail through troubled waters. When the pirates attack, it’s shoot to kill, period. NO prisoners, and blow their boat completely out of the water. It would only take two times and I would bet good money the piracy would drop by 80%.”
RIGHTO! But would need long range .50 Cal BMGs in addition to short range weapons and 24/7 lookouts with FLIR gear so as not to get surprised in the dead of night! Still, most countries would be off limits for port calls due to BS weapons laws.
JC
“We’re talking range of up to several thousands of feet and burn temperatures of thousands of degrees.”
I’ll challenge you to hit an aircraft carrier at that range with a flare gun!! You’ve been reading comic books and in the interim they’ll hit you with a RPG up close and personal...
JC
You’ve got the right idea, but a .50 Cal sniper rifle is better for stand off protection, but will get you arrested and jailed in most ports! Best to just stay away ‘til the USA gets some cojones!!
JC
“These good Christian’s souls are with our Lord Jesus Christ tonight. Indeed, they are the lucky ones...”
Yes, they are “lucky” their souls were already saved, but they were “unlucky” to have taken such risks to start with! Think of how much good they could have still accomplished had they not been foolhardy in known pirate waters.
“Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!”
JC
JC
“Do they make Five inch navel guns for sail boats?”
Sure thing...if you want it to turn turtle and sink! Or alternatively, tear a twenty foot wide hole in the deck when you fire it and it rips loose from its moorings!
JC
If memory serves there were 20 Somalian criminals aboard the boat when the SEALs got there. I hardly think that an elderly couple with a shotgun would have discouraged them. The smartest move on their part would have been to not go anywhere near the area to begin with.
Flare gun vs. RPG = Fail
Flare gun vs. AK-47 = Fail
Which might be better than what happened to them anyway! In related news Seattle citizens wonder,”Would tires be good on a car?”
I know what you mean, but you have to realize several of these piracy hijackings have occurred in international waters, there is NO way you could venture out of international waters with a sailboat secretly outfitted to be a gunship.
I'm talking about a boat manned by SEALS that is a decoy, ports of call are irrelevant. You wouldn't have to worry about their RPG's because you would catch them completely by surprise about 20 seconds before they boarded. Blow them up, and get the hell out of there and smoke a good cigar
You are very correct about firearms in foreign ports of call, my ancient Jeanneau has a hidden bilge compartment that was used to house the movable centerboard (she's a fixed keel now) and it's damn near impossible to find and I hide mine in there. There are two rubber floor rails that actually cover up the screw hole access so it's very concealed. One time in a small island in the Cyclades I had accidentally left my Colt in the nav station drawer and spent about 14 very unpleasant hours in the local police station where I was indeed having nightmares about biting off someone's tongue, especially since it was Greece
Stay in international waters, run the SEALS through some pretty heavy training, and drop two A200 mini torpedoes overboard once the pirates are trying to board and are about 60' away. There would only be small pieces of these scumbags left for anyone to attempt to piece together(pun intended) what happened.
By just 'not sailing in pirate waters gives them the victory, and about 30% of the Arabian Ocean and about 10% of the Indian Ocean, which is unacceptable.
It depends on the situation. There have been cases of yachts successfully fighting off pirate attacks. The main strategy in that area is running in convoy, for mutual support. It’s much harder to attack multiple yachts that can fire on you from several directions.
Keep in mind that this yacht was attacked more than 1000 miles from Somalia. Their range of operation is as big as the USA east of the Mississippi.
And just as, for example, one person with a CCW could be overwhelmed by a gang with assault rifles, that does not mean CCW is useless. In most cases, a CCW pistol will stop an attack. Same on the ocean with a yacht. I always carried a rifle and other weapons.
If you don't declare weapons AND you are caught, the boat, the weapon may be confiscated and jail time is a high probability. The only option is if you have them declare them and turn them in to the country.
My solution, don't go there if they won't let you keep them secure on board.
I’ve been through the Panama Canal twice on my own boat, and I’ve sailed from Guam to Ireland, but not the other side of the world. I always carried guns and was just careful about reporting them...or not.
I did have to toss my guns overboard once. I planned to sail nonstop from San Diego to Panama, but ran into no wind for weeks on end and used much more diesel than I planned to keep moving. Rather than cross the Gulf of Tehuantepec with very little fuel left, we diverted into one of the last ports in southern Mexico. I deep sixed 3 firearms, none of them expensive.
But I’ve taken weapons into a score of countries, other than Mexico I had no hassle. I had no hassle in Mexico either, because I’d ditched the weapons. Sometimes I declare them, sometimes I don’t, depending on the country.
Flares as weapons are a joke. I’ve tested them against a jacket over a pumpkin at ten feet range. They bounce off leaving a scorch mark. They might, however, bounce off adn land somewhere and either start a fire or ruin a sail.
I would consider a 12guage steel converter sleeve that goes into a 25mm flare pistol. It turns the big pistol into a 12 guage firing real shot. Haven’t tried it but I like the concept, since the innocuous sleeve can be hidden easily, and so can some 12g shells.
See my last.
Sign me up!
Put a 4x ACOG sight on any accurate semi-auto rifle, and you can kill that RPG gunner at 400 yards, depending on the sea state. But the sea state affects both pirates and sailors, so that’s a wash. But AKs and RPGs will not be effectively in range until long after a good Western rifle like an AR with an ACOG has been in easy killing range. For sure. The point is to display weapons and fire warning shots early. Nobody wants to get shot. Warning shots into the water ahead of a vessel are a clearly understood message. Keep coming, the next on is going to hurt. If they don’t turn away, start picking them off. Actually do it. When AK-waving Somalis start falling, the rest have a change of heart. This has been done.
They were attacked more than 1000 miles from Somalia.
If you are sailing around the world, Africa presents you with a choice. The Red Sea or the Cape of Good Hope. 50 foot waves against a five knot current can also kill you.
Until recently, yachts have been convoying through the Red Sea, under the eye of the USN. I don’t know about this yacht, but it was more than 1000 miles from Somalia and had probably not even reached the convoy assembly area.
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