YAF National Board Expels Ron Paul From Advisory Board

War is never neat and pretty. Think of WWII, was it worth it? I mean it set up the commies pretty well, Germany was divided, etc.

It’s never all or nothing. It’s more, on balance, was it worth it?

Given the fact that we have just about disembowled the global jihad movement, I say yes.

We will never totally get rid of jihadis, of course. We can, at best, keep them weak and on the run.

And likewise, there's a difference between our response to Pearl Harbor and the attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan.

Wow! Simply stunning! What exactly would that difference be, Gondring?

The attack on Pearl Harbor was conducted by the Imperial Japanese Navy, not Germany or Italy or North Africa so why did we attack them? Why did we not simply go to Japan, wipe them out and come home?

The 9/11 attack was a bunch of Saudis, not the state of Iraq, so I'd say that's not even comparable.

See above. I would say it is exactly the same.
BTW, that bunch of Saudis were not in SA, they were in Afghanistan operating under the Al Queda umbrella of a host of terrorist organizations with players scattered in several countries, Iraq being one of them.

"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them."
"And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation in every region now has a decision to make: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime."
-- President George W. Bush, 9/20/01
"And you all also may remember that early on, I said if you hide a terrorist, if you feed a terrorist, if you provide comfort to a terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist. The Taliban now knows what we mean. They're gone." -- President George W. Bush in Alaska on 2/16/02
[do a search of Abu Nidal+Iraq]
In other words, it's a red-herring comparison.
Not at all. You may also want to do a search on the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.

logician2u:

I absolutely despise Ron Paul and the cowardly policies and dishonesty that are his hallmarks. Nonetheless, I know of no credible evidence that he is personally antisemitic and I am certainly willing to believe that he is not antisemitic. He is stiubborn as hell and he is tone deaf and he is arrogant to the nth degree with little reason for being arrogant. However, antisemites do gravitate in his direction when he goes around spewing the 9/11 truther nonsense and being willingly interviewed by the likes of Alex Jones and being in a position to be photographed with antisemites. He has such enthusiasm for abandoning Israel to its enemies (and our enemies) that he confuses people who fail to notice that he wants to abandon everyone in every other nation lest it cost him money as a taxpayer.

PaleoPaulie apparently believes that letters of marque and reprisal are somehow an adequate substitute for the Pentagon and all of its military services. He is wrong.

IIRC, the Good Book tells us that Cain slew Abel and that, when God confronted Cain as to the fate of Abel, Cain said he was not his brother's keeper. PaleoPaulie, the Wonder Wimp, killed no one but he also insists on not being his brothers' keeper. As I recall, Cain was not the hero of the Bible passage even if you disregard the fact that he personally slew Abel. The Good Samaritan was the hero of a later passage when he bound up the wounds of the stranger who was a mugging victim and paid for his care after several more respected and pious fellows had walked on by not wanting to be involved. Should we (and PaleoPaulie) just talk the talk or should we walk the walk???

If paleoPaulie does not want to personally stop abortion (and he does not, copping out on "constitutional" excuses while winking at his leftist antiwar buddies) or invasions of American allies lands or terrorist murders of Americans and others, I would be all for exempting him personally from even having to pay the portion of his taxes that fund such worthwhile efforts. Honorable people should not have to suffer being sullied by association with him. God marked Cain as a warning that men were not to punish Cain. Shunning paleoPaulie and paleo/anyone/else will suffice and it is often recommended by even libertoonians as a substitute for government action. That is what YAF did in expelling the paleosurrenderman from its advisory board where he never should have been in the first place. I assure you that during my time as a YAF state chairman (late 1960s and early 1970s), this "non-interventionism" disgrace would not have been tolerated for a moment. YAF was militantly pro-Vietnam War and the only thing wrong with that war was the cowardice of our politicians who refused to allow victory.

Although Ron Paul is not likely to be an antisemite, did he ever return the scandalous contributions from those who were antisemitic contributors? As I recall, he absolutely refused which is not surprising since libertoonians often regard money as a god.

Christians who live their Faith in their daily lives are Christians and not "slaves" to their religion. "Christians" who compartmentalize their lives so as to imagine themselves believers while seeing that the beliefs are NOT carried out in their daily lives are kidding themselves but they cannot kid God. Religion is a lot more than "rituals" and "customs" and "millennial longings" or "prophesies."

What is your problem with blackjackpershing's last paragraph in #115? What does it possibly have to do with a phony like the Rev. Mr. Phelps who disrupts the funerals of patriots and war dead? Phelps is a phony and so is Ron Paul.

Ron and Rand Paul flood CPAC with their homosexual, anti-war lunatics. No surprise he wins the straw poll.

And yet, the Paultards are wetting themselves in excitement as if this actually means anything.

They always provide some decent entertainment during the election season, though. There is value in comic relief.

‘when was the last time Switzerland was invaded? Roman times?’

Switzerland, which came into existence in 1291, started fighting revolutionary battles internally in the period of the French Revolution, eventually being completely conquered by French Revolutionary armies (it was renamed The Helvetic Republic). It did not regain its independence until after the fall of Napoleon.

“The attack on Pearl Harbor was conducted by the Imperial Japanese Navy, not Germany or Italy or North Africa so why did we attack them? Why did we not simply go to Japan, wipe them out and come home?”

LOL, maybe because after we declared war on Japan, Germany declared war on the United States.

That could have something to do with it. (rolls eyes)

>> Why did it take them so long to figure this out?

Well, they’re young...

>> Exactly right. Paul is correct about the Fed... but that doesn’t matter if we are all dead.

He’s right about many things that don’t involve Foreign Affairs.

I admire Ron Paul in context of domestic issues. And I despise the douche bag politicians that poke fun at him, especially during primaries. On the other hand, I agree with Trump’s recent remarks about his chance for POTUS.

Logician2u:

See #143.

Buckley was wrong in advocating the release of that prisoner just as a sound (a physical wave phenomenon) is made when an unobserved and unheard tree falls in the forest. When the subsequent behavior of the prisoner who benefited from Buckley's column proved that Buckley had been wrong about him, Buckley was certainly man enough to admit his error and to do so promptly. Whether he knew he had erred when publishing the column was not the issue.

However, to continue the analogy, did Neville Chamberlain ever apologize for materially contributing to the deaths of Jews from the Sudetenland whom he had eagerly abandoned to Hitler's tender mercies???? Ummmm, that would be a no. Likewise, few American isolationists or peace creeps or "non-interventionists" apologized ever apologized. Instructively, the dropping of Japanese bombs on Pearl Harbor on 12/7/41 caused the notorious America First Committee to formally fold its tent on 12/8/41 and its leaders John Flynn, Colonel McCormack and Charles Lindbergh to abandon antiwar efforts and support the war effort. They were non-interventionists but not (as Scoop Jackson would famously say many years later) damned fools.

John Flynn lived in Connecticut, was IIRC the Executive Director of America First and was the long time editor of my hometown newspaper, the New Haven Register, then owned by John Day Jackson and one of the most conservative newspapers in this country. He lived in Connecticut (in Cheshire) as did Lindbergh (in Greenwich). Colonel McCormack lived in the Chicago area as owner of the Chicago Tribune but he also owned the New York Daily News. They were major antiwar and anti-interventionist figures before Pearl Harbor in spite of those Northeastern and even New England connections.

Not only can I not PROVE the future consequences of interventionism but I also cannot prove whether California will wind up in the Pacific Ocean if the San Andreas Fault finally gives way. Heck, I cannot prove whether Comrade Hussein will lose his re-election bid although it seems likely. I can confidently say that the Galveston pipsqueak will not be moving into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue nor will he be the GOP nominee. If I turn out to be wrong (which I will not), it will not be for lack of sincerity but for failure to foresee a wave of craven cowardice sweeping my country.

Those of us who are normal conservatives are almost always interventionists. That's just the kind of world we live in and our rational response to it. Even Robert Taft the Elder abandoned his midwestern proclivity for non-intervention. Not only did he support WWII after 12/7/41, but he authored a book on foreign policy after the war in which he derided any further attempts to help Europe since we had fought two wars there, since European nations had enjoyed their opportunity for freedom and rejected freedom in favor of statism. Surprisingly he encouraged the US to intervene in the Third World, and particularly Latin America, Africa and Asia since those nations had not rejected freedom and deserved the chance to embrace freedom.

Switzerland is armed with a lot more than letters of marque and reprisal or dishonest press conferences. The terrain is a bit challenging as well and Switzerland is not a very large nation.

Conservatism is quite well understood in New England. The Buckley (Bill, his parents, his siblings) family resided at Great Elm in Sharon, Connecticut (my wife worked for Bill for years). Ann Coulter grew up in New Canaan, Connecticut, and her elder brother John was a chairman of New Canaan High YAF. Laura Ingraham grew up in Glastonbury, Connecticut, then matriculated at Dartmouth where she was active in the Dartmouth Review. Robert Bork and Ralph Winter were professors at Yale Law. Clarence Thomas graduated Holy Cross College in MA and then Yale Law School. John Bolton was Yale undergrad (1970) and Law (1973). Dinesh D'Souza also attended Dartmouth and was part of the Dartmouth Review. The Party of the Right of the Yale Political Union is probably the premier campus conservative student group in American higher education. One of its members was Robert Schuchman, a Yale Law student who was YAF's first National Chairman. I believe that the Young Republican National Federation was created by the Connecticut Young Republican Federation. As a former chairman of CFYR, I have seen scrapbooks maintained by distant predecessors with news clippings to that effect. Henry Hazlitt was a long-time resident of Connecticut. The Manchester Union Leader of the late William Loeb was the newspaper of record in New Hampshire under Loeb and his widow Nancy Scripps Loeb.

As to military conservatism or interventionism, its hard to practice without the hardware and the bases. Connecticut, nicknamed "the arsenal of the democracy," sports Colt, Remington, US Repeating Arms (a sad shadow of its predecessor Winchester), Sturm Ruger, Marlin, Electric Boat, Sikorsky, many Pratt and Whitney plants, Hamilton Standard, the former Avco Lycoming, New London Submarine Base (nuclear missile subs and fast attack subs), the US Coast Guard Academy and feeder plants galore. Other New England bases and plants: Westover (MA) Airbase, Portsmouth (NH) Naval Base, Bath (ME) Shipyards, Newport (RI) Naval Base, Springfield (MA) Armory, Raytheon (MA).

We need not be taken over by Kuwait or Gaza to prove the wisdom of interventionism. We need only remember a few things: that there is no moral equivalency between Islamofascism and American patriotism. We are us. They are not us. It is better to be fully armed and not need to be than to need to be armed and be defenseless. We need not nation build abroad. We should take care to make our wars very short, extremely destructive to our enemies and quite spectacularly memorable. Flat, black, glow in the dark if necessary. Think of our enemies as Carthage after the Third Punic War only with modern weaponry. WE decide what is in our national interest and we carry on accordingly without any curtsying or bowing to the UN or its "weapons inspectors" (read enemy apologists and stall artists).

If we had fought the USSR in a war, Connecticut would have died for the sins of the pacifist crowd but NOT without one hell of a fight.

Oh, you mean like Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, who both sat down with the communists and attempted to negotiate an end to the Cold War? But then they weren't known pot users, so maybe that image doesn't fit.
If you choose to conflate Rollback with Detante, you are beyond logical debate. Nixon choose accomodation. Reagan, undermined the USSR's legitimacy and reached out to dissedents in occupied territories, REgan negotiated nuclear weapons. That is all.

Many of these student radicals stayed on in the universities they caused trouble at to become TA's and later professors. It was a strategic error on the part of conservatives to remain on the wrong side of history even when Vietnam was lost, as the next two generations of college kids came under the influence of successively more radical and anti-freedom academics.
Those who supported directly or indirectly the Vietnamese and Cambidian communists were on the wrong side of history and have blood on their hands. That of of American miltary amd SE Asian civilians who died under communism after the communist victor they helped.

And conservatives were drummed out of universities before then. Liberals, who considered conservative paranoid or deluisional, were replaced by radicals who silenced conservatives and libertarians. The useful idiocy of some libertarians did not help them an iota in the PC university.

There is a ton of difference between libertarians and radical socialist/communist leftwingers, and you know it. Do not confuse an anti-war sentiment with leftism, as they are not the same.
Anti-anti-commuinism may not be communism, but the results are the same.

And please refrain from the bong jokes, as even the sainted WFB, Jr. was in favor of legalizing pot. Now, even Tom Tancredo is on the legalization bandwagon. I am very sure he's not a user, and neither am I.)
I wasn't making a "Pot Joke". I was giving anti-anti-communist libertopinans the benefit of the doubt. I am saying that they are/were drugged rather than moral ignorami who lacked the intelligence to see the difference between the supposed welfare-warfare state and the reality that conservatives never have had the abilty to control foreign and domestic policy,

I oppose foreign aid to Israel and the Islamic word. Robert Taft supported US recognition of Israel before and after 1947 and supported foreign aid for Israel. Those claiming to be Taft supporter are woefully ignorant of Taft’s positions.

Young America's Foundation owns the Reagan Ranch.This article is about Young Americans for Freedom. Is this a different group?
Young Americans Foundation is a 501C3 education group spun off from Young Americans for Freedom yhears ago. They are not separate, with overlapping membership

Ron Paul isn;t an antisemite. He just suffer from idoelogoicaly-motivated ignorance on Islam and Hamas. He can’t imagine that the Muslim Brotherhood pre-existed ISrael. He thinks Hamas is the legitimate goverment of Gaza and worthy of foreign aid.

Paul is also right about this proposal.

IMO Paul uses rainbow rhetoric to manipulate the youth just like 0.

Couldn’t agree more.

The straw poll was taken before all the speakers even spoke. It was ridiculous.

The media would sure LOVE to see the Republicans run Paul. The worst that would happen (from their sick mindset) is that Obama would get re-elected. The best that would happen is that America would be crushed as a country (and probably broken up, if not at least partially occupied)...which is their REAL DREAM.

But if Paul doesn’t get the nomination - Huckabee will do decent job of either losing or also wrecking the country.

Bttt

Donald Trump poointed out the obvious at CPAC; Paul cannot win the Presidency. As for Trump, he is looking better every day. So, no to Romney. No to Huckabee. No to Gingrich. Fresh blood is not what is needed, it is demanded!