they must have received the same memo...tells us all we need to know, doesn't it?
Posted on 02/08/2011 9:18:38 AM PST by Nachum
In response to my PJM article documenting anti-Semitic imagery at the Egyptian protests, I’ve received several comments — both in public and in private — suggesting that, nevertheless, anti-Semitic and/or “anti-Zionist” sentiment among the protestors has played only a marginal role. The assurances to this effect are typically based on the first-hand accounts of Western observers or English-speaking participants with Western contacts. These accounts are supposed somehow to trump the clear pictorial evidence to the contrary.
The appearance of anti-Semitic and/or “anti-Zionist” motifs in the photos and videos of the protests is, however, simply too widespread and systematic for such assurances to reassure. Such images are to be found in video and photographic material from virtually every major Western news organization present in Egypt. This fact is all the more significant when one considers that the reports published or broadcast by these very same news organizations have as a rule outright ignored any anti-Semitic or anti-Israeli sentiment among the protestors. Indeed, as will be seen below, even more outrageous images figure prominently in the flickr streams of amateur local photographers.
Herewith further evidence.
(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...
They share Code Pink’s world view.
The Muslims have to blams someone for their failures; and they will NEVER admit or concede to having a flaw.
Islam realizes that they need to blame someone for their troubles - so the most convenient foe is, always has been, and will forever be the Jew.
It seems to be a genetic defect.
The title assumes a dichotomy that does not exist.
There is no reason at all jew hatred cannot be perfectly democratic policy, if we define "democracy" as "rule by the people," rather than "civil society with equal rights for all."
Rule by the people does NOT necessarily presuppose civil society.
Under the conditions extant in Nazi Germany in the late 30s, there could be no such thing as a free election, but knowledgeable observers of the time believed that if one had been held Hitler would have been confirmed in power by somewhere between 75% and 90% of the vote.
By the "rule of the people" definition, therefore, Nazism was democratic.
And lack of food has nothing to do with this. Take a look, everyone is well fed and well muscled.They are on a mission - from Allah!!
http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-13.png
Read the whole publication which was published very recently in Dec. 2010 and PRAY FOR THE WORLD:
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/#prc-jump
If anyone is in denial that Egyptians want a “secular” government rather than an Islamic Republic, this poll may change your mind:
This is not historically accurate. Throughout most of its history the attitude of Islam towards the Jews has been much like that of Christianity, contempt rather than hatred.
Christians were much more hated for most of this time by Muslims, as they were strong enough to be formidable enemies. The Jews, without a state and with no military power, were not. They were despised more than hated.
Sources?
In my studies of Islam, I have found that Mohammed referred to Christians as 'followers of the Book', where the Jews were referred to as Jews. The "followers of the Book" were to be defeated, but the Jew was to be killed.
Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'"
Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
Both Jews and Christians were considered “People of the Book.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
Your claim that Islam has been consistently focused on killing of the Jews for the last 1400 years makes no sense. If it had been, it is quite obvious there would have been no Jews left in the regions controlled by Islam. In fact, of course, there were a great many, most of whom had to flee when the region became truly anti-Jewish after 1948.
During most of the Middle Ages and early modern period, most of Islam was a good deal more tolerant of Judaism than most of Christendom. When the Jews were expelled from “Christian” countries in the 1400s and 1500s, most of the fled to Islamic countries, where many became quite wealthy.
I don’t subscribe to the myth of great Muslim toleration, but let’s not go overboard on the other side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
Your claim that Islam has been consistently focused on killing of the Jews for the last 1400 years makes no sense. If it had been, it is quite obvious there would have been no Jews left in the regions controlled by Islam. In fact, of course, there were a great many, most of whom had to flee when the region became truly anti-Jewish after 1948.
During most of the Middle Ages and early modern period, most of Islam was a good deal more tolerant of Judaism than most of Christendom. When the Jews were expelled from “Christian” countries in the 1400s and 1500s, most of the fled to Islamic countries, where many became quite wealthy.
I don’t subscribe to the myth of great Muslim toleration, but let’s not go overboard on the other side.
Yes, and one of the reasons Islam has spread is the concept of Jizya. The Jews who fled to Islamic countries found themselves facing a tax.
Depending upon your source, this tax was either very ‘fair’ and the subjects were treated like an ordinary citizen; or the person was forced to pay under penalty of death.
I don’t think you can go too far the other way, when it comes to Muslums. You cannot reason with a group of people who view suicide bombers, blowing up school buses, using their churches as arms depots and training grounds, mutilating their women, beating and murdering women who are simply accused of violating a taboo, cutting the heads off of non-combatants, ect. There is going to be a war of Genocidal proportions - and it’s going to be forced on us, by the Muslums.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya
I would say that 50% or more of the reason they want Mu-Barack out is to go after Israel. They have already said as much.
My comment was strictly historical in nature. Through much of its history, Islam was less adversarial towards Jews than the Christendom of the same period. This is a fact, and it is not that Muslims were so tolerant, it’s that the Christians were even worse.
For instance, a major reason Syria, Egypt, North Africa and to some extent even Spain fell to Islam with so little resistance is that the Jews and (non-fully-orthodox) Christians of these regions had been severely persecuted by the orthodox Christians of the Roman and Byzantine Empires for a long time.
Many of the Jews and “heretics” were less than active in resisting the Muslim advance, or even joined in the attack on the Empire or the Spanish Ostrogothic kingdom. They saw the Muslims as the lesser of two evils. They or their descendants may have regretted that decision at some point, but by then it was of course too late.
It is notable that the initial Muslim advance against Christendom was stopped dead the moment it left these areas of heterodox religion and resulting persecution.
I do not necessarily disagree with your analysis of present appropriate policies towards Islam.
Thanks Nachum. Saw a thread elsewhere with photos from Libya — Gaddafi’s portraits being marked with the Star of David or the entire Israeli flag, along with the horns etc.
they must have received the same memo...tells us all we need to know, doesn't it?
IT WAS MORE A MATTER OF - SIGN THIS AND WE LET YOU LIVE:
The Status of Non-Muslims Under Muslim Rule
After the rapid expansion of the Muslim dominion in the 7th century, Muslims leaders were required to work out a way of dealing with Non-Muslims, who remained in the majority in many areas for centuries. The solution was to develop the notion of the “dhimma”, or “protected person”. The Dhimmi were required to pay an extra tax, but usually they were unmolested. This compares well with the treatment meted out to non-Christians in Christian Europe. The Pact of Umar is supposed to have been the peace accord offered by the Caliph Umar to the Christians of Syria, a “pact” which formed the patter of later interaction.
We heard from ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghanam [died 78/697] as follows: When Umar ibn al-Khattab, may God be pleased with him, accorded a peace to the Christians of Syria, we wrote to him as follows:
In the name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of God Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:
We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks’ cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.
We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.
We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.
We shall not teach the Qur’an to our children.
We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.
We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.
We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.
We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.
We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.
We shall not sell fermented drinks.
We shall clip the fronts of our heads.
We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists
We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.
We shall not take slaves who have beenallotted to Muslims.
We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.
(When I brought the letter to Umar, may God be pleased with him, he added, “We shall not strike a Muslim.”)
We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.
If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition.
Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are: “They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims,” and “Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact.”
from Al-Turtushi, Siraj al-Muluk, pp. 229-230.
[This was a from hand out at an Islamic History Class at the University of Edinburgh in 1979. Source of translation not given.]
Thanks Fred Nerks!
As opposed to, “We won’t let you live under any conditions.”
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