Posted on 02/05/2011 5:21:45 PM PST by Reagan69
I own that sermon series and I don’t agree with your assessment.
He was not defending the Muslim faith. He explained its origins in historical, theological terms and stated Jesus is the only one who does not have to be justified in context of his cultural/historical environment.
People may have been raping, pillaging during that timeframe and the prophet of Islam engaged in these practices, but Andy made it very clear that Jesus is guilty of no offenses. No explanation or justification needed in the case of how Jesus lived His life.
Just because a politician is the one who does the asking, does that make it right?
Andy did an excellent series called Guardrails where he advised setting rules for behavior ahead of time so it is easier to safely stay within the lines of correct behavior. One example he offered from his own life was that he and Sandra agreed early on not to be alone with a member of the opposite sex (other than each other, of course). If a woman asks him to meet her for lunch to discuss some problem, he makes sure there will either be another guy along or another girl. Bottom line, he can blame it on the rule and not have to worry about coming across rude. He can stay above reproach, or, said his way, he can stay safely between the guardrails.
If North Point was the type to say “yes” to other requests that were not perfectly under the umbrella of their mission statement, it’d be easier to take. I know plenty of churches that host choral concerts, aerobic classes, sports programs, etc. This is not one of them. That’s why this event is just so out of character and why “she asked” doesn’t fly with me no matter how much I appreciate the church and Andy.
We too have attended North Point since the church began. Needless to say very disappointed in their decision to host this event especially since Andy has bent over backwards during the years to stay apolitical in his comments. I think he has sold out those of us who have volunteered for years and put our trust in his leadership. We wouldn’t have agreed to this if it were Laura Bush or Nancy Reagan because we have always thought, as we thought Andy believed as well, that we should leave politics in our car as we attended to worship. Even if the White House called and requested it, why couldn’t Andy have been enough of a leader to say “I’m flattered but I don’[t think this would be the right message to send to our church”. Instead the message delivered last Sunday was almost too perfect to couple with this announcement. Sad, really sad.
“She asked” is not reason enough to say yes, especially for North Point. Some churches host aerobic classes, school chorus events, sports programs, food pantries on site, weddings, etc. — they try to do it all. North Point purposely does not. It purposely sticks to “what they do best” and what specifically fits under their mission statement. This does not. “She asked” is truly no reason.
I love to visit Georgia, and will be coming there on Monday.looking for some sunshine!!! save me some...
carole
haircutter
That is correct, he did say that about Jesus. However, he also said that we must credit Muhammads actions with what was going on in those time and in that region....that was/is my assessment and you cannot deny that he did say that in that sermon.
And, he also said the Christians and Muslims have in common evil acts in the names of their religions. And he points to the Crusades as proof...saying that the Crusades were nothing but a land grab, where Christians killed women and children and muslims and jews, for nothing other than power and greed.
I live in Alpharetta. Though I attend Perimeter PCA (an evangelical Presbyterian church), I have visited at North Point several times, and always found the message Biblically sound and the music (though quite “different”) still beautiful.
A personal observation:
I have a friend who is a North Point member who was faced with the news from her Doctor early on in her pregnancy that the baby had “Downs”. She and her husband, of course, chose to NOT abort the baby and with the amazing support of the church “family” they were able to face with tremendous strength all the hardships that this situation brought and continues to bring. Northpoint held special prayer services for her and her family all through those months, praying for God to heal the baby’s serious heart defect the doctor had also diagnosed. What I saw was amazing faith both on the part of my friend and the church.
On the other hand.... another personal observation:
I was appalled during the presidential election to see how many friends and neighbors I had thought of as “conservative”, now supporting Obama. Just as another poster brought up in a previous thread, they seemed to be caught up in the “white guilt” thing and the excitement of voting for “hope and change” and they were way to busy playing golf and tennis to look into the actual facts. I was so depressed about the whole election (McCain and Obama was just NO choice at all!) that I didn’t ever look to closely at the numbers. But I bet you could check the precinct records in and around Alpharetta. The huge numbers of North Point Church voters would have been a significant impact. Perhaps that would shed light on the question. I would not at all be surprised if we found Alpharetta to not be as conservative as we once thought.
One more personal observation:
North Point is a huge church. Many in it’s congregation are strong evangelical Christians and avid conservatives. However the church’s mission seems to be to attract the rest of the crowd, bring them in to hear contemporary music, a powerful sermon, be surrounded by the love emanating from the core believers (true Christians) there and by doing so, bring them to an understanding of the Gospel and God’s plan for their life. Perhaps Andy Stanley naively sees this hope in everyone, even Michelle Obama while some of us suspect the Obamas have gone to far to the dark side to ever make it back.
It will be interesting indeed to see what repercussions North Point Community will have from this event.
Those are insightful points.
“Thank you for leaving”
Actually I didn’t “leave”.
I just cut off a conversation with another poster.
I didn’t get to listen to the sermon this past Sunday, so I just listened to it now. It’s clear the church said “yes” as outreach to those who perhaps wouldn’t normally be accepting of the Christian message because the Christian community isn’t usually accepting of them. It’s available online for anyone who wants to hear it.
From my notes: You think you’re open-minded, you think you’re accepting, but we all settle into our own version of Christianity and can become pharisaical. Conflict between the gospel of right/wrong can conflict with the gospel of grace. Church people get really weird about conflicts—they build walls, they erect barriers. The ones that have been there for 10 years, volunteer there, put money in there are usually the ones to complain. People want to know what our policies are; I tell the staff we don’t have policies, we have conversations. Be bold, take risks, err on the side of grace. Don’t drift into Insider and away from Outsider. Don’t drift into Law and away from Grace. The first church dodged the first split by erring on the side of grace. They don’t have to act like us to become a part of us. Can’t let desire to preserve the church “like it is” get in the way of the mission to increase the kingdom. God accepted you as you were, should not make it difficult for others to come to Him.
The sermon was as sincere as any I’ve heard before, as consistent with the mission of the church as any I’ve heard before.
I attended the event and appreciate the suggestion to look with a discerning mind rather than an open-mind. I have a mixed report for those interested. First, because of the response from the church reflected in post 93 I believed the church meant the outreach that would occur after the event, but what I didn’t anticipate was what happened at the event. The co-hosts “Ray of Hope” church is a black congregation and they were there in force. The audience was at least half black, but others of interest who were there included many from CDC (a predominantly secular crowd for sure) and many physicians and health care workers from the Atlanta area who may not attend church. As you would expect the place was packed like an Easter or Christmas service and I would say there were atleast 6500 people. I sat next to a black man from the other congregation, a physician and his wife from Georgia Academy of Pediatrics, both of whom don’t attend church regularly and next to them was the assistant to Dr. Tom Frieden, the CDC director. The ticket said “doors open at 130, program begins at 230” but this is what I hadn’t counted on, FLOTUS didn’t speak till 4:00 and the 1.5 hours prior to that was a fully captive audience with many secular people attending and they heard the NPCC mission, the black church’s mission, music from NPCC musicians which is typically Christian pop-rock, and from the black choir which was good ol’ gospel music. Intermixed with this were the PSAs about let’s move campaign about getting kids more active in sports and play. Then when the program started, a little Asian girl (no more than 7) recited perfectly (including one nation under God) the pledge of allegiance and from what I heard the majority of the audience spoke along enthusiastically (even the pediatrician next to me whispered along) but what was even better, was when one of the NPCC main singers sang the national anthem a cappella in one of the most beautiful renditions I’ve ever heard. It was unbelievable! Then the Ray of Hope pastor spoke about FLOTUS (she is the pastor who gave the invocation prayer at the 2008 DNC convention) and it was very impassioned- they are likely personal friends. Finally, Andy introduced FLOTUS by saying some flattering words about the movement and that as a parent he appreciated the effort on behalf of children and that regardless of political or religious persuasion we as citizens can all rally around working together to make our children healthier-about which he seemed very sincere. This is also very much his language. It is inclusive, but not to offend Christians, so much as to show the secular world that there is some common ground.
When FLOTUS spoke, what surprised me was one of the first statistics she cited was about the number of young adults that are too overweight to join the military. Had this been a line by a conservative, I would have gotten behind it. The rest was impassioned but pretty boiler plate stuff about the health risks of obesity to children, etc.
Here is what I hadn’t counted on that I thought was a benefit: Many of the black audience seemed to rally around the fact that the obesity problem was particularly acute in their population, and she did talk quite a bit about it ultimately being a parent’s responsibility. This was good to hear.
The down side: I know a lot about the Let’s Move program and the personal responsibility part I agree with, but it veers quite a bit into the whole social justice thing and implies much about institutional racism impacting poor populations more, which just frustrates me quite a bit.
SO the bottom line is, should the church have hosted FLOTUS, what were the up and down sides.
The up was that it did allow a fairly conservative congregation to integrate with a big liberal black congregation in a very friendly way. While in the line waiting to get in I had great discussions with members of Ray of Hope; also as described, it presented a Christian program complete with patriotic trimmings to a partially unchurched secular crowd of elites who may never see it again; and I generally agree with many of the points in FLOTUS message.
The downs: When does the first step of the slippery slope begin, I am somewhat concerned, based on my knowledge of the whole “let’s move”program that it began yesterday. Its a warning against faith-based initiatives, which I had been somewhat ambivalent towards, but now realize that by partnering with the government the church has to compromise in ways it might not want to.
Also, it gives FLOTUS a big forum and as has been said in the stream before, seems to imply the church’s endorsement of everything Obama instead of maybe just this one thing.
The question I would ask the readers to consider, is whether the event as described, and the subject around which the Lets Move campaign is focused has any merit, both from a Christian outreach perspective, and from a national concern. The second question is should a church get behind anything suggested by someone in the whitehouse, if there are so many things in the whitehouse with which the church disagrees. I admit to being unsure.
I am pretty sure that based on having attended the event it will be viewed in mainly a positive light by the congregation because of the program itself. I will post again if I hear otherwise Sunday.
Thanks sesame sticks. I attended the event and wrote a long summary for this post early this morning that hasn’t appeared yet. I am new to the site and don’t know why there would be delay. I will rewrite and post this afternoon if necessary, but wonder where my post went.
That sounds pretty much in line with the form letter and what others were promoting this as a matter of grace. I don’t know. Romans 6 is pretty clear about grace not being an excuse to do wrong. Socialism is as about as wrong as it gets, it is government replacing God. It’s a false teaching in a church, and the Bible’s very clear about that too.
Other questions still unanswered... if this was just a matter of lending facilites, why advertise it?
If it was a matter of outreach - (to those who wouldn’t normally visit their church) was the Gospel preached either before or after Michelle Obama’s speech? The feed went offline, did anyone hear it firsthand?
Thanks for your feedback, it sounds like about what I thought it would be.
Was the Gospel preached?
It’s online now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iTtD8RHj_E
Thanks to I am Not for a good first hand report. And please do keep us posted on what you hear Sunday.
“I am new to the site and don’t know why there would be delay. I will rewrite and post this afternoon if necessary, but wonder where my post went.”
There is never delay in posting. Every post goes up immediately. It is a two stage process and you may have ended it too early. If you post isn’t up - it’s gone.
When you hit post you will see in red...
“Auto-preview in effect. Click Post again to submit your comment.”
... and you have to check off
“I have already previewed or do not wish to preview this composition.”
...and hit post again.
“Conflict between the gospel of right/wrong can conflict with the gospel of grace. “
How many gospels are there?
Congrats on staying in the profession so long. You do a VERY worth while service and it is appreciated way more than you know. Thank you so much!!!!
All you folks at North Point had better get to the bottom of this. It’s not just your Church, it’s your money too.
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