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To: BenKenobi

“So you admit that Russia AND France mobolized first? Germany fought back in self-defense.”

Wrong. Mobilization is not an attack. It never, ever had been considered a cause for war before. That was never part of the diplomatic tradition. You have fallen directly into the trap Germany laid for you, allowing it to argue “self-defense” for purely offensive acts.

“Do you think that if she were on the offensive that they would choose to fight a two front war?”

Yes! That was their plan. They wrote it down! It’s called the Schlieffen Plan.

“Instead, because Russia declared war on them, they were forced to defend on both.”

Wrong. Russia did not declare war on them. Now you’re simply lying.

“Defended so well that, as you said, they never fought on German soil in the west.”

Why do you figure they did as well as they did? Could it possibly be that they deliberatly planned things so that they’d be able to mobilize while they fought, unlike their enemies? Also, because, unlike their enemies, they actually were on the offensive?


27 posted on 02/04/2011 9:52:45 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

“Yes! That was their plan. They wrote it down! It’s called the Schlieffen Plan.”

Yes, I studied the Schlieffen Plan. The Plan was to be used in the case that a two front war was inevitable. The German plan in an offensive war in the West was the same as in 1870, to run straight through Sedan and to Paris.

They did not want a two front war. They knew going in that war against the Entente was suicide. The reason for the swing through Belgium, is because they wanted to draw the French forces in Lorraine deep into Germany and swing around Paris.

In a war against France alone, they would have just massed everyone at the border and punched through again, using surprise. Which is what they did in 1870. They already had the playbook for victory against France. They needed one for France and Russia.

When Russia invaded East Prussia, the war was on. Germany did not invade Russia. Germany did not invade Belgium until after Russia invaded East Prussia.

Things were so bad in East Prussia that Moltke replaced the East Prussian commander with replaced by Lundendorff and Hindenburg, because he wanted to withdraw all German forces behind the Oder river, and abandon all of East Prussia.

Lundendorff was elevated and he recalled Hindenburg to the eastern front. They realized that the attacks of the Russian 1st and 2nd armies, under Rennenkampf and Samsonov were not co-ordinated. Then they realized that their communications were unshielded. So not only were they not listening to one another, they were broadcasting their movements to the Germans.

Lundendorff managed to slip in armies behind the Russians, and encircle the second Army at the First battle of Masurian Lakes. Than 4 months later, he was able to do the same to Rennenkampf, who hadn’t even bothered to advance from Gumbinnen to Koenigsberg.


31 posted on 02/04/2011 10:07:10 AM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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